B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Looks like the GOP secretly liked the ACA all along.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

Comments (254)

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

I'm sure they like it. . My guess, they'll finally do what they should have done. Fix it & keep what's okay. (pre-existing, availability). . but if you're happy with current ACA, it's a tax bill that's failing to cover 100% too. .

H2O @ 5 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

After years of actively sabotaging it... why would we trust the fox to guard the henhouse now?

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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ACA is perfect: 100% people covered, higher taxes on 25%, keep your doctor, keep your plan... . what's the downside? Single provider, maybe?

H2O @ 5 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Never said it was perfect. Far from it. But exponentially better than both pieces of garbage the GOP tried passing.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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I am just thrilled about all this winning, aren't you? Now we can get back to important topics, like Russian adoptions.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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that's what I'm talking about. ^^^ . I know it's not perfect for you, it's not Single Payer socialized care .

H2O @ 5 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

So who's Putin adopting now? J. Kerry? Hillary? I think he's already adopted WJ Clinton, I could be wrong, maybe a night with Chelsea .

H2O @ 5 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Single payer is simply better and cheaper than the mess of a system we have now. And the GOP plans were horseshït by any measure.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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Awwww so cute how you're playing ignorant re Russia.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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here's a question skal. . Do the Democrats in Congress (majority of), believe ACA is okay? If not have they proposed any changes? ( besides single payer)

H2O @ 5 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Ok as is, no. Proposed changes: only in platform. Kinda a waste of time when the party controlling the House had no intention to fix and has focused on repeal since taking over.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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Here's a question - what did you think about the now sunk Senate bill?

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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didn't like any of the 3. . always said best way is to fix the damn bill via bipartisan. . or let it go as is and let dems own it. . prediction: repeal plus 2 years fails, too. .

H2O @ 5 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

don Jr. or Spicer getting adopted? You pick your idiot in this one. . although I would support the repeal plus 2.

H2O @ 5 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

I know you're happy my insurance premium went up 300% . single payer, single care provider umbrella, medical personnel become government employees..... all would control cost . similar to the VA model

H2O @ 5 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Funny thing is the GOP owns healthcare now. They're in control and because of their sabotage, ACA (which is popular now) might go down on their watch.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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Repeal plus 2 is a horrible idea.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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300%? Sounds a bit exaggerated compared to rates that have been released.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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I disagree on gop owning "Obamacare", easy to twist back and blame dems for not wanting to fix. (right or wrong) . repeal plus 2 forces bipartisan bill. neither side wins 100% . only 2 other choices remain. dems get to write new bill or it stays in

H2O @ 5 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

I don't see dems getting new bill for at least 3 years. unless the bmoron scenario works... dems win house and Senate and Trump and pence quit breathing. . president Pelosi .

H2O @ 5 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Why would it force a bipartisan bill? The save the GOP from the mess they cause by the repeal? Ha. Remember, not all parts of the repeal wait two years to take effect. The mandate is gone immediately.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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takes 60 votes for replacement with repeal plus 2. . my so called free healthcare for military service went from $46/month to $215/month. My supplemental insurance went from $386/month to $475/month. military insurance effectively up 300%. .

H2O @ 5 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

ACA forces primary coverage of military insurance to Medicare as prime @ 65. . yeah my insurance is cheap

H2O @ 5 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

if it was a true mandate 100% would be covered, younger not playing the game. .

H2O @ 5 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Mandate lacked teeth because conservatives howled. That's their least favorite part. So either it's a mandate or it isn't. Can't have it both ways...

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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Are you sure that ACA forced you into Medicare?

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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yep, everyone in retired and turning 65 after 2013

H2O @ 5 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

per tricare reps, part of ACA mandate that affects government workers and families. . military retirees and veterans take it in the ass again. better part the Obama VA bill now says I can't use VA healthcare because I make too much in retirement.

H2O @ 5 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

actually may have better off not going over 20. . yep, I'm bitter as fùck. The primary reason for staying in was the promised medical for me & wife. .

H2O @ 5 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Was there something else that took effect in 2013 (say...March 1) that could've been responsible?

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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I'll bite, couldn't find anything March 1

H2O @ 5 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

You know there was, but if blaming ACA helps you sleep better at night.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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Sequester

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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It hit TRICARE hard and caused the changes in prime you blamed on ACA.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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Skål is in full Nelson from the Simpsons "Ha Ha!" mode.

The Drew @ 5 months ago

Yorkville, New York, NY

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

sequester just forces everything. I'll read the sequester outline, I'll acknowledge it if it's there. still doesn't let Obama off the hook, sequester is his baby too. .

H2O @ 5 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

BTW: nothing helps me sleep better night. Thanks to Obama's VA thresholds, my PTSD therapy was cancelled and no civilian physic around here provides treatment. . so I get entertained by nightmares

H2O @ 5 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

CATCH 22

H2O @ 5 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Yeah, it's as amusing as all my Medicaid patients that say they're glad they don't have none of those stupid obummercare plans.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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You can't just read the outline, bud. You have to read the specifics of what TRICARE did in response to sequester.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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Sorry to hear.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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seems that the bottom line of this thread is: when the gubment gets too involved it turns to shït. all they know how to do is waste money.

President Not Sure @ 5 months ago

Wright City, MO, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Not always. If elements of gubment are determined to make gubment not work so they can justify cutting it, it's a hell of a lot easier than making something work.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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This all goes to show that John Boehner knew his party better than the current leaders. It will be interesting to see if he was also right on tax reform.

jc @ 5 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a53411/john-boehner-republicans-obamacare/

jc @ 5 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

hey h2o: there is a new wris####ch app invention that senses your sleep disruption and buzzes your wrist just enough to tip you out of the nightmare, without waking you. It's a life changer for those of us with ptsd. look into it.

Dr. Evil @ 5 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

wrist watch. lol

Dr. Evil @ 5 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

MyBivy

Dr. Evil @ 5 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Did that go anywhere?

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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@evil - looks like it was a typical Kickstarter project. Maybe paid for a semester of his tuition at Macalester.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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Well at least it sounded good and it triggered the twát filter.

The Drew @ 5 months ago

Long Island City, Queens, NY

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

I did go somewhere Skål, not sure where it's at now. someone bought the app I'm pretty sure. hopefully they'll continue with it: the results are really outstanding for a lot of people.

Dr. Evil @ 5 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

ptsd- related sleep disturbances are awful because lack of sleep blocks other efforts to get better. You can't improve your mental health without restful sleep.

Dr. Evil @ 5 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Agree 150%

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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It sounds like you know some people who got in on the beta? I looked on the Pebble store - not there. Doesn't look too be available for apple/Android watches either. (Or something similar)

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

try living with this shìt . i go to bed hoping to sleep through the night, hoping I don't hurt the wife, punch a hole in the wall, ??????? . reliving bad history sucks drinking to sleep, sucks .

H2O @ 5 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

no place to turn (So far) for help, sucks

H2O @ 5 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

98d7101629a5e7bcbaca8c6c5bd9decc

just think, if you slept better, you wouldn't be so grumpy. then you'd become a liberal. May not be worth it. seriously though, I hope you find a solution.

UndrWater @ 5 months ago

17702 Eric Ave, Cerritos, CA 90703, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Me too, H2O. I have the added joy of menopause hormonal issues, which really fúck with sleep on their own. My ptsd is related to the beatings and worse suffered at the hands of my ex.

Dr. Evil @ 5 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

I know your ptsd issues are far worse than mine, H2O; I have enough problems to fully appreciate what you are going through. Really I hope you find a solution.

Dr. Evil @ 5 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

... that being said, the reason I came too this thread was to congratulate the three brave Republican senators who refused to let the people down on the health care issue. As our young Dr. Froyda says, guess it's really not so bad after all.

Dr. Evil @ 5 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Republicans have been claiming for years and years about having "something better" than Obamacare?? YOU FÚCKING LIED, BÍTCHES!!! You got butkus you dumb asshats. hahahahaha

Dr. Evil @ 5 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Obama's kicking back on some island right now laughing his ass off you stupid idiots! You can't do the ONE THING YOU'VE SCREAMED ABOUT FOR SEVEN YEARS.

Dr. Evil @ 5 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Full control of two of the three branches of government and you fúcking can't accomplish one major piece of legislation? Complete and utter fail, you dumb fúcks. Good luck with that tax reform thing. hahahahaha fúcking losers!!!

Dr. Evil @ 5 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Yay! I'm young!

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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My prediction right now is that 4 to 5 years from now we will go to single payer, courtesy of President Warren and a cooperative congress.

Dr. Evil @ 5 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

compared to me you are young, sonny

Dr. Evil @ 5 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

hey why don't you connect with me on LinkedIn?

Dr. Evil @ 5 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Haven't touched LinkedIn for almost a decade. Just not used - all the networking is done with Doximity. The US News and World Report Hospital/Clinic and residency rankings are all polled from Doximity now, so there's

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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Little reason to use anything else.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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The single payer FUD has been coming out heavy this last week to distract from the looming BCRA failure. That's just a fraction of what we'll see if it actually is proposed in either chamber.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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I'm less optimistic for that reason. The right has done an excellent job at distorting single payer into a boogeyman.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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That's very true. And the Medicaid expansion has helped a lot of desperate people. Not in states that opted out of that, of course. But the state option is useful to show the benefit. Now we just need to expand on that.

Dr. Evil @ 5 months ago

Hudson, WI 54016, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Its always good to see the result of those state-as-laboratory experiments. They suck for those on the "we shouldn't do it that way" end of things, but at least we cam all learn.

Dr. Evil @ 5 months ago

Hudson, WI 54016, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

...and bítches gots to learn. Apparently.

Dr. Evil @ 4 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

26e82c69bac3abe48cfce8aae262fda8

It's "bupkis" by the way.

The Drew @ 4 months ago

Northwest Harbor, NY 11937, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Sorry Drew. Guess I was thinking of Dick Butkus or something. So: YOU GOT BUPKIS, BÍTCHES. How's that!!

Dr. Evil @ 4 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Yeah, so we've had a few of those state as laboratory experiments with single payer - CA and VT. Politicians seem to balk at the price tag. Changing the nomenclature for funding insurance from premium to tax, even if the

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

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Total amount is less, seems to a very powerful poliical disincentive.

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

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I've rather enjoyed Brownbackistan's tax cut paradise experiment.

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

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me too, the schadenfreude is delicious until I remember that actual people are suffering through no fault of their own... unless they voted for the idiocy, in which case whatever they get, they deserve.

Dr. Evil @ 4 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

I also notice that there is no defense of any of this from anyone like pns, h2o, or even that idiot plc.

Dr. Evil @ 4 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

I guess they realize that we need to go where Obama dared not: single payer, Bernie is coming out worth the plan soon and Dems will have enough time to refine it and get buy in while they're out of power. 2020 will bring it.

Dr. Evil @ 4 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

The GOP that beat their chests for 7 years but didn't actually have any sort of a plan or even a plan for a plan. The Democrats will develop a plan if they're smart. I'm curious to see how it develops.

Dr. Evil @ 4 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing--after they've tried everything else!" I think we're getting closer to "everything else"

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

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I'm not so optimistic about the Democrats being smart. They still have essentially the same old guard leadership that sits high on their laurels and expects people to vote for them because "lesser evil" Inspiring stuff

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

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evil I have already made my statement about this and anything else the govt gets involved in. they will fūck it up worse than it was and spend way too much money doing it

President Not Sure @ 4 months ago

Wright City, MO, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

None of your weak, tender little girl asses will even admit to voting for Trump will you? "Who, me? Oh no, naturally it's not my fault. I voted for [cool alt candidate who is safe since it's hindsight].

Dr. Evil @ 4 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

441587fe232d918c3a4c8497d22aa156

I voted for Trump and I believe it was the best choice. I wish the gop would have not said anything about ocare. it was meant to fail from the beginning. it's all about control.

President Not Sure @ 4 months ago

Wright City, MO, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

It's been surprisingly resilient despite the active sabotage by the GOP. Rubio messing up the risk corridors really drove premiums up. Now that ACA is popular, time for the destructive shenanigans to get the spotlight.

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

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If the Dems had guts, they'd highlight these moves every time rate hikes are brought up. But they don't.

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

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Kind of like they didn't bring up all the background work, committees etc to which the ACA was subjected, when the GOP said Dems "shoved it down our throats"??

Dr. Evil @ 4 months ago

Main St & Mulberry St, Stillwater, MN 55082, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Democrats are spineless. And clueless.

Dr. Evil @ 4 months ago

Main St & Mulberry St, Stillwater, MN 55082, USA

441587fe232d918c3a4c8497d22aa156

Close just substitute politicians for democrats

President Not Sure @ 4 months ago

O'Fallon Township, MO, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

"shoved it down our throats", comes from the vast majority of the citizens opposing the bill, not some fùcked up committee meeting.

H2O @ 4 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Based on mostly bullshït misinformation. The great thing about the BCRA disaster was that telling the truth about what was in it killed it. No need to make shït up.

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

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Truly...the facts spoke and the people said, wtf. The people think maybe the ACA is better than they thought.

Dr. Evil @ 4 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

The people said, we wanted out with the ACA because you, Republicans, tell us its awful. What Republicans failed to realize is that not every change is good change, particularly with health care! News flash: it's about more than politics!!

Dr. Evil @ 4 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

The people demand not just "a change" but "a change FOR THE BETTER." Wake up and smell the leadership, it smells like blood sweat and tears. Get to fúcking work.

Dr. Evil @ 4 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

What the people want is universal coverage. For everything but birth control and abortion. Oh and also for no money. No raising taxes even a dime or we'll scream SOCIALISM!!!! hahaha good luck asshats.

Dr. Evil @ 4 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

The most unpopular part of the ACA, the individual mandate, makes the popular parts possible. We simply can't have our cake and eat it too. But that's what we want.

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

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Exactly so. The GOP is going to run into that conundrum repeatedly... they are politically incapable of understanding that concept.

Dr. Evil @ 4 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

26e82c69bac3abe48cfce8aae262fda8

I think the Minnesota people are getting too giddy.

The Drew @ 4 months ago

Murray Hill, New York, NY

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Agree-gasms

Dr. Evil @ 4 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

And I'm spent

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

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7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

Minnesota people think taxing the middle class into poverty is an acceptable solution. . ACA Increased minimum wage (double or better) $100k is rich .

H2O @ 4 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Speaking of taxation - Still waiting to know how much the Cadillac tax has affected you, H2O.

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

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Pretty broad statement re MN, h2o. Care to back that up at all or is this a trumpism?

Dr. Evil @ 4 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Overall, MN is doing pretty well economically. State unemployment is well below national levels. We do have a health care premium issue, with large recent increases.

Dr. Evil @ 4 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

....aaaand he's got nothing. It's everything I expected from you, h2o!

Dr. Evil @ 4 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

just read your & doc's statements. self identifying, maximum taxation to satisfy a socialist agenda . bet you even believe our healthcare should be available to everyone, worldwide. .

H2O @ 4 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

it's funny though, skal doesn't want to see it totally government run (paycut). he just wants more of the government pie. medical costs can escalate as long as we can have higher taxes & more government money .

H2O @ 4 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

if you want single payer so bad, why not Single provider? .

H2O @ 4 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

that way you can keep your doctor and the plans the same for everyone. OBAMACARE .

H2O @ 4 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

but this debate is moot: repeal, replace, repair, etc. is doa in Congress. . ACA is good enough, here to stay, untouched by GOP, and defended in totality by Dems .

H2O @ 4 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

skal, to answer your question.... https://www.cigna.com/health-care-reform/cadillac-tax .

H2O @ 4 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

"skal doesn't want to see it totally government run (paycut)" As someone strongly considering heading back to the VA, I find that hilarious.

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

undefined

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Oh good, you're learning.

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

undefined

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Why not single provider? Competition. I want it to still exist for care delivery.

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

undefined

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

meaning you want more money, at someone else's expense

H2O @ 4 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

it figures you would see something requested that was earned as hilarious. . but never fear, the ONLY place locally that treats combat related PTSD is unavailable to me. . gotta love a good screwing .

H2O @ 4 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

It's hilarious because going back to the VA is a significant pay cut, exactly what you are saying that I'm trying to avoid It's almost like you have no clue what you're talking about and just trying to get in cheap jabs

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

undefined

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

You're going to the VA? . I thought you were referring to me trying to get the VA to do it's damn job. . either way a fine example of socialized healthcare. pay cuts, refusal of service. .

H2O @ 4 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

No. I wouldn't attack you for your PTSD. I'm not an asshøle.

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

undefined

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

The VA is an example of single payer with one provider. No competitor for things like service, wait times, etc. With a single payer and multiple providers, the providers still compete for your business.

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

undefined

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Those that are better at controlling costs can have do better financially too. Other countries have made this approach work. Could work here. Nationalizing health systems is a political non starter.

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

undefined

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

Single provider & payer, controls all costs. . we could do away with: insurance companies Medicare and Medicaid ACA . even control treatment options, somewhat like UK . evil's elective surgeries would be totally out of pocket in advance

H2O @ 4 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

That would control costs. But the US isn't ready for an NHS type system. We already control treatment options here in the US - we are just less up front about it.

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

undefined

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

unless the money is there. .

H2O @ 4 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Backdoor rationing is still rationing. We do a lot of it here and then point at wait times for elective stuff in other countries while pretending everything is peachy here.

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

undefined

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

One huge difference between elsewhere and here is primary care. Here it is a loss leader. That's why we have a shortage. Other countries use it more effectively.

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

undefined

26e82c69bac3abe48cfce8aae262fda8

There was some article describing different countries' systems in terms of what we have in the US (cuz we have bits and pieces of a lot of types). I'm too lazy to find this article

The Drew @ 4 months ago

Northwest Harbor, NY 11937, USA

26e82c69bac3abe48cfce8aae262fda8

Also hehheh "backdoor"

The Drew @ 4 months ago

Northwest Harbor, NY 11937, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

That's the Drew we know and love

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

undefined

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Totally holding out for my free ass implant surgery.

Dr. Evil @ 4 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

I thought it was the camel-toe makeover.

H2O @ 4 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

I don't think that can be overcome without sewing it shut!

Dr. Evil @ 4 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

Skal ??? ? medical opinion

H2O @ 4 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Maybe crack spackle? I think there was an SNL "ad" for that many years ago. For use by plumbers on the other side of things...but I don't see why the same approach wouldn't work for camel toe.

Dr. Evil @ 4 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Sup H2O?

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

undefined

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

...the sewing issue I think.

Dr. Evil @ 4 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

That'd get you about halfway to finishing the lower part of gender reassignment

Tjaden Froyda @ 4 months ago

undefined

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

I'll stick with crack spackle.

Dr. Evil @ 4 months ago

West Seventh, St Paul, MN, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

use a gorilla epoxy; cheaper, last longer, std resultant .

H2O @ 4 months ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Hey now, here we go again. The freshly proposed Graham-Cassidy-Heller-Johnson amendment is already opposed by 10 governors including Alaska's.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

h2o: it's the "long lasting" part that's the problem with epoxy... it's a little too long lasting :(

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

H2O - clearly losing your Tricare coverage as a part of sequestration was a big problem. The GOP has been aiming to privatize the VA for years and their demands during the budget ceiling fight directly led to your

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

undefined

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Coverage change. Sequester wasn't Obama's baby and you know it.

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

undefined

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

If this new idea makes it through there won't be Dems to blame for the resulting shïtshow.

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

undefined

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

It's not gonna make it...I have a feeling McCain is going to save the Senate from itself again if he has to. Even though southern belle Lindsey Graham is his bestie.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

McCain wants something done the right way, not the slapdash shít sausage passing for bills on health care coverage these days. Good for him for putting our interests above pure political nastiness. It's really a low bar when you think about it.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Plus, imagine the schadenfreude for McCain when it turned out he tanked Trump's entire legislative ship with one vote. It's a gift that's really kept on giving...to the Democrats too, pilots of Trump's new ship.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Wonder if the Dem leaders are studying "Apprentice" episodes and getting a feel for how they should act in this situation. Trump fired the Republicans. Can dems wheel and deal like business folk? They'd be better off trying that approach I think.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

McCain has been "concerned", which is code for he's going to vote for it anyways based on what he's done in the past. His objections to the previous attempt were more over process than content.

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

undefined

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Well I guess we'll see. I'm not sure process and content don't come down to the same thing, in the end.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

As long as health insurance is involved, it will be all just be a different form of crap..

AMi @ 3 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/obamas-fanciful-claim-that-congress-proposed-the-sequester/2012/10/25/8651dc6a-1eed-11e2-ba31-3083ca97c314_blog.html?utm_term=.3c5d694bd983

H2O @ 3 months ago

Spotsylvania Courthouse, VA 22553, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

nah, wasn't Obama's

H2O @ 3 months ago

Spotsylvania Courthouse, VA 22553, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

What happened next?

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

undefined

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

yeah, sequestration was one terrible idea. Reid should have trusted his gut and kicked the idea to the curb. McConnell too. Like with the current health care bill, it's the Dopeler effect... bad ideas seem better when they come at you quickly.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

When you don't have time to think things through, those nasty down sides are just a blur, nothing to see there.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

More than just that. The Dems made the assumption that the GOP wouldn't want across the board spending cuts (inc defense) and would negotiate to include tax increases as part of the deal. They wouldn't budge

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

undefined

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

As a result, H2Os Tricare gets cut. But at least they saved him from tax increases, right? Plus, now he has access to the private market, which we know as an irrefutable fact does everything better than the govt

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

undefined

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

All true. Especially the assumptions of dems that the gop could be somehow indirectly controlled by relying on their consciences to guide them to do the right thing. Really stupid calculus for politicians.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

and by "conscience" I mean political conscience, not humanitarian.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

So surprise!, Dems, you totally underestimated Congress' ability to fúck it all up. And you underestimated Republican's ability to be complete idiots in the name of ideological purity.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

https://ldi.upenn.edu/news/overview-israels-universal-health-care-system

AMi @ 3 months ago

1132 N Ardmore Ave, Villa Park, IL 60181, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-johnson-concern-trolls-single-payer-20170921-story.html

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

undefined

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

I look at Healthcare by stepping outside the echo chamber and analyzing how universal Healthcare affects countries. Turns out that the systems are often more efficient, effective, and result in healthier lifestyles.

AMi @ 3 months ago

1132 N Ardmore Ave, Villa Park, IL 60181, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

So... what? Do you imagine no one in Congress brought this up or considered other countries' systems, ami? Its not as if this is a new idea or based on some new information.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

We're Murricans. Those other systems must be crap cuz they're not in Murrica and they're socialists. We got us the best dang healthcare in the world dammit!

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

Ok?

AMi @ 3 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

I hope that there are more AMis out there. And I believe the ranks are growing. Slowly maybe, but sill growing. It will take an educated electorate to drag Washington through the hoardes of lobbyists into the realization that we have one of the most

jc @ 3 months ago

Miami Township, OH, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

inefficient health care systems in the world. You couldn't design a more piecemeal, redundant, wastefull system if you tried.

jc @ 3 months ago

Miami Township, OH, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

Our kids will eventually demand a system that makes some kind of sense.

jc @ 3 months ago

Miami Township, OH, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

Let me bore you with an example. I just had my annual physical. My doc was concerned with my white cell count. He set up an appt with a hematologist. I told him to send her a five year history. No problem.

jc @ 3 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

As long as the will to sabotage such a system exists, it won't happen. ACA was sabotaged pretty easily. As much as I wish we could get SP, frankly repubs will do everything possible to break it.

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

undefined

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

I received a packet from her office containing four pages of med history questions. I called, asked if this was necessary as I was sure he sent all of that info. The person explained that every office had specific forms to be transcribed in their

jc @ 3 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

particular format. Stupid Stupid Stupid.

jc @ 3 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

When I arrived, I handed my paperwork to the person in the window. She asked my name.. I pointed to the top of page one. She asked for my birthday... I pointed to line three. She said she needed to scan my insurance card. I told hrr all of that info

jc @ 3 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

was on page two. She still needed to scan the card. This went on for about ten minutes. STUPID?

jc @ 3 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

Autonomic bureaucracy

AMi @ 3 months ago

1132 N Ardmore Ave, Villa Park, IL 60181, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

To make matters even more absurd, her office is located in the hospital where I've been admitted more than once. They share some, but not all patient info. As I left they told me I could access all test results and other pertinent information by

jc @ 3 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

visiting the hospitals website called Mychart. My doctor has the same thing. But why these can't be somehow combined is beyond me. Maybe this is the first step.

jc @ 3 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

I remember watching a documentary about health care in Taiwan. That's right. Little, backward Taiwan. A little old lady walked into a doctors office. She handed a card to the nurse. The card was scanned. Her medical history was displayed, her recent

jc @ 3 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

office visits, her medications, her medical procedures. She was there for an MRI. When she left her card was scanned again. It was updated to include her visit. The interviewer asked the doctor how long it would be before he received payment for the

jc @ 3 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

visit. The doctor said that he was paid the moment that the card was updated. Not bad for a little backward country like Taiwan. And here we are filling out four pages of redundant crap for a simple blood test.

jc @ 3 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

Do people think Taiwan is backwards? I certainly never did... All that aside you're absolutely correct on the redundant nature

AMi @ 3 months ago

1132 N Ardmore Ave, Villa Park, IL 60181, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

Holy Sh¡t... Not Taiwan. It was Thailand. Pick one: It's late. I'm old. They kinda sound alike. It was ten years ago. All of the above.

jc @ 3 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

I'll go with door 2

AMi @ 3 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

Trump is bringing in some consultants from Nambia. He seemed genuinely impressed with their healthcare system.

jc @ 3 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

Is he really?

AMi @ 3 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

You're too easy. https://youtu.be/CWrA9v87UuM

jc @ 3 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Well I too am glad more people are learning about the topic, but seriously ami are you really learning this stuff just now? Its nice jc is so proud of you, but I assumed you were joking.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Because your initial blanket statement is a real Captain Obvious kind of thing.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Also you didn't seem to get my Murrica statements. Really?

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

Jc that is hilarious, I just assumed you misspelled Namibia (quite common mistake)

AMi @ 3 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

Good morning Doc

AMi @ 3 months ago

1132 N Ardmore Ave, Villa Park, IL 60181, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

Doc,,,AMi probably has a better understanding of european healthcare systems than I. He just doesn't believe that they can be adapted for the US. Given the current political climate, he is probably right. I, on the other hand, believe that Trump will

jc @ 3 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

spawn a new generation of voters who will be engaged, informed, and open to looking at any number of new ideas.

jc @ 3 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Well basic differences in the legal systems in the U.S. and most EU countries contributes significantly to our inability to get EU results, sorry to say.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

...EU results in our healthcare system that is.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Skål, was I right about McCain? http://wapo.st/2xXFMk0

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Skål did you hear the blue eye mutation story yet? Single mutation of HERC2 turns off...I want to say OCA2 (Brown eye pigment). All blue eyed people are likely traced to a single ancestor, from Europe where the mutation occurred.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Ancestor lived 6k-10k years ago. Cool.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

301-363 Quality Ave N, Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

I graduated with some of them.

jc @ 3 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

is the majority here now in favor of single payer health insurance? . does single payer then control procedure & drug costs? .

H2O @ 3 months ago

Pleasanton, CA, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

I'd like to see a hybrid. I really like the german model. It's possible to stay with a private insurer. The single payer system is administered by private insurance companies. They compete on service. The companies are paid a flat fee for each

jc @ 3 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

client they represent. At first, the majority stayed with private insurance. That has drastically changed.

jc @ 3 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Evil - you were right.

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

undefined

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

If I ever heard that story, don't recall it.

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

undefined

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Brand new story.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

If health care workers were government employees, they could have immunity from lawsuits. No malpractice insurance etc. Just sayin.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

jc, how do you propose to control costs for procedure & drugs? or are they allowed to escalate as seen fit by provider?

H2O @ 3 months ago

2901 Sorano Ct, Pleasanton, CA 94566, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

The structure we have now isn't very effective. I've seen examples of plans that control drug costs by covering a limited number of similar drugs. Then it comes down to the two or three lowest cost providers. That's a pretty strong incentive to

jc @ 3 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

control costs.

jc @ 3 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

I don't see this as a real stumbling block. The pharma companies are used to negotiating. Sometimes it's with insurance companies other times it's with national health boards.

jc @ 3 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

The same holds true for procedures. The whole world manages to establish reasonable prices. the doctors may not be thrilled, but they aren't changing careers. One doctor was asked how he was dealing with the new national healthcare system. He said he

jc @ 3 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

now rents his vacation home on the Riviera instead of buying it.

jc @ 3 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

When a drug is patented there is only one provider. same worth medical devices and even new procedures. No competition...by definition

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

same *with*

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

But you can counter that dynamic. if you have only one buyer, buying for millions, the playing field is considerably more level.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

jc that is one poor doctor...even I own a vacation home on the Riviera.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

yea, but you used Mr. Evil as a gigolo to pay for it. .

H2O @ 3 months ago

Pleasanton, CA, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

why not own the entire process to control the costs? . pharma, docs, hospitals.... all run and subsidized by the government .

H2O @ 3 months ago

Pleasanton, CA, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

That's not the only option, so stop pretending it is.

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

undefined

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

But to answer your question, that would probably be there most efficient but least politically viable option. Plus, you know as well as I do the Republicans would do everything to make sure it doesn't work,

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

undefined

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Just so they could point at it and say see it didn't work, ignoring the sabotage.

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

undefined

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

I never said it was only option. . is your only option a single payer? . how does single payer control cost or are you going to continually allow multi digit percentage premium increases? .

H2O @ 3 months ago

2901 Sorano Ct, Pleasanton, CA 94566, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

are you going to subsidize premiums for the majority of the citizens while forcing the rest to pay for the entitlement? . are you okay with pharma, docs, hospitals setting the cost and single payer paying as demanded? .

H2O @ 3 months ago

Pleasanton, CA, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

who determines the level healthcare provided or under single payer is everything covered? . what if you need a procedure, to survive, and you're not covered? .

H2O @ 3 months ago

Pleasanton, CA, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Let me rephrase: Of the manifestations of SP, a NHS style system is not the only option.

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

undefined

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Regarding the rest of the questions, you need to read up on how single payer works a bit. This app isn't the right place for it. Neither are right wing sites.

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

undefined

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Somehow the rest of the world had tackled those issues. You should look into it. Really.

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

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in other words, h2o, your ignorance is just allowing you to reach the conclusion you want. Stop pretending to have a point.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

in other words, you have nothing but smoke & mirrors .

H2O @ 3 months ago

Pleasanton, CA, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

I'm in favor of single payer as long as we can tie it to single provider. .

H2O @ 3 months ago

Pleasanton, CA, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

the entire rest of the world is single payer, really? .

H2O @ 3 months ago

Pleasanton, CA, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Smoke and mirrors? Hardly. Those issues have been figured out in places that have implemented SP. No the rest of the world isn't SP. That wasn't a literal statement.

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

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https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2017/03/26/its-surprising-how-few-countries-have-national-single-payer-health-care-systems/?c=0&s=trending#4029b52f1365

H2O @ 3 months ago

2901 Sorano Ct, Pleasanton, CA 94566, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Why tie it to single provider?

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

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7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

why tie it to single payer

H2O @ 3 months ago

Pleasanton, CA, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

You make no sense.

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

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C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

But he's right in his own mind. Because in there he's got all the info he needs up in there.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

I've said SP is fine, but to effectively control costs federalize the system. . There is a model there that's in place. VA, good enough for everyone. .

H2O @ 3 months ago

Pleasanton, CA, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

So you think government health care is the way to go, h2o? I disagree that the VA is the sole model for federally applied health carein the U.S. Medicare is a not awfully-applied. Relative to other health care provided in this country it seems

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

to work acceptably well. Seems like we could start lowering the qualification age slowly, while also shifting cost structures around to accommodate as we go. Not an immediate fix obviously.

Dr. Evil @ 3 months ago

Lakeland, MN 55043, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

VA is the model to use for federally controlled sole provider. . doctors, hospitals, clinics all controlled by the government. . would allow for rural/remote placement of medical people's also . win win

H2O @ 3 months ago

Pleasanton, CA, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

For some reason I doubt the sincerity of your recent conversion to a SP fan.

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

1728-1762 MN-41, Chaska, MN 55318, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Regardless, the single payer, single provider isn't going to happen here. Single payer, multiple provider is more likely if such a system were to get passed here bc of the spirit of competition here.

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

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Compete on service, promote lean processes, etc. May the best care delivery system win.

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

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Re drugs and procedures - I can tell you for certain some procedures are done more frequently than evidence suggests should be done. Get rid of FFS, prioritize well rather than treat illness, and that incentive goes away

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

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@jc - i agree with you re german model. "The healing of america" by TR Reid - great book describing the different systems.

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

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I love your paperwork example too, JC. So much fricken redundancy. Same with lab tests/imaging studies. So much waste from repeated items. If only the systems talked together better. Been trying since 2009; slow progress

Tjaden Froyda @ 3 months ago

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