0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

Pondering POTUS' suggestion that federal troops be sent into Chicago.... Every official including the President takes an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign or domestic Wouldn't organized crime/gangs be a domestic enemy?

AMi @ 5 months ago

Comments (68)

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

The South and West sides of Chicago are war zones right now. Chicago Police seem completely ineffective. At what point does it become appropriate to send in the national guard?

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

But Chiraq doesn't have oil. Why would we want to invade there?

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

Maybe Trump's approach is a little different

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/01/21/trump-iraq-should-have-kept-oil/SwZlr5SwQeG5AkYf4NZelK/story.html Nope.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

Yeah, it's different because we Didn't keep the oil. We allowed it to fund ISIS, who we also ended up arming All horrible accidents I'm sure

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Let's say he sends the guard into the Austin neighborhood. Then what? Crime will just magically disappear?

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

That's the wrong mentality. It's about shifting the level of control organized crime has over that neighborhood. You take out the leaders and their lieutenants, you create a secure environment, and

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

encourage economic investment. Quality of life improves, hope returns, destructive forces are minimized.

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

Action must happen otherwise this issue will be perpetuated indefinitely.

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

By "Taking out the leaders and lieutenants", are you advocating that the president uses the military to assassinate US citizens without trial?

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

1. US Citizen is a big assumption 2. No, I advocate we take them, and if they resist removal then yes deadly force would be warranted. 3. These animals crush the rights of every law abiding person in that neighborhood in a daily basis

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

(1) Are Chiraqi's not US citizens? (2) What could go wrong with handing over domestic law enforcement powers to the military? (3) So they lose their constitutional rights?

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

1. Just because they are in Chicago doesn't mean they are citizen 2. I don't know, but not much is going right by leaving the issue to law enforcement to solve. 3. Never said that

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

(1) True, but since Chiraq is in the US you kinda have to start with the assumption they are a US citizen (not the other way around).

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

Parents in these neighborhoods are in constant fear, students can't get a good education, businesses steer clear, and families have nowhere to go. It is Hell and to do nothing would be wrong imo

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

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(2) I generally think that the Hitler/Trump parallels are overplayed. Giving the President the power to use the US military for domestic law enforcement is the exception.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

Yes, you do, maybe I wasn't clear before they must have the intention to take these persons peacefully and without harm to stand trial

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

the Chicago Police know who these persons are but they neither have the resources nor the political environment to address the situation

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

That power is not unprecedented (although rarely exercised). Frankly I don't trust his restraint given his extremely thin skin and tendency to go after any and all critics.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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If the CPD doesn't have the resources or the political environment to address the situation despite the clear problem, that's a local problem.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

The political environment is a national issue (Ferguson) Chicago is in dire straits financially, property taxes are going up, those who can are leaving. Those who can't are suffering.

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

I get your concern but at what point do the potential benefits exceed the potential risks

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Chicago's financial problems were caused by local politicians skipping on pension payments so they didn't have to raise taxes, saying they'll pay them back, and then not doing it. It's entirely self-imposed.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

I'm not advocating a national Police Force, I'm advocating for targeted federal assistance to help long afflicted neighborhoods become places that are better to live in

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

That may take a decade of occupation...

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

Based on what precedent?

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Mosul. But why just limit this targeted federal assistance to just Chiraq. Why not spread it nationally? Aren't there other municipalities in need (ie Ferguson)?

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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And while we're in the mood for using the US military for local law enforcement to help improve long afflicted neighborhoods, we have a pretty bad drug problem across the country...

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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Let's say they clean it up in a couple of years. Then leave. What keeps it from being re- occupied? This sounds a lot like the Viet Nam/Iraq strategy.

jc @ 5 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

Either they deal with the source of the problem or they end up chasing the result for ever.

jc @ 5 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

Neighborhood/cultural transformation would create a toxic environment for gangs what would you say is the source of the problem?

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

It's a lot of things. Income disparity, the breakdown of the family unit, discrimination. Nothing that is going to be fixed by a short military occupation.

jc @ 5 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

All of those things are symptomatic of a lack of security. With security comes better education, more stable families, and private investment that discourages discrimination.

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

You talk of military occupation as if these neighborhoods aren't already a war zone. This is exactly why we have a national guard

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

I don't doubt the war zone claim. But it took decades to devolve to this state. I'm just saying there needs to be a long range plan to reverse it. Just cleaning it up for a short time is folly.

jc @ 5 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

It's been in this state since the 70s with brief decreases in crime

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

My argument is that it would shift the tide towards long term improvement. It is action. Actual tangible action, enough politics, enough talk, time to take out the trash and bring freedom to these communities

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

If I were a mother living in Inglewood, I would be silently thanking God when I see the national guard roll in.

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

Let's assume the criminal element is mobile. What prevents them from infiltrating another area? Or worse, what happens when the snipers start picking off the national guard? Urban warfare is hell. What will happen to all of the refugees?

jc @ 5 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

98d7101629a5e7bcbaca8c6c5bd9decc

doesn't the governor if Illinois have a say?

UndrWater @ 5 months ago

Southwood Riviera, Torrance, CA 90505

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

UW, clearly you don't understand Illinois politics. The Governor, especially a Republican one, has no power here.

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

Hey, maybe the drug dealers and gang members will just change their ways. Maybe they will all be happy getting jobs in all of the new businesses in the neighborhood. Yep. I'm sure that's Trump's plan.

jc @ 5 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Except that the IL Governor controls the state's national guard...

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

Organized crime needs foot soldiers, a public transit system, and economic destitution to thrive. Chicago is a perfect breeding ground base.

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

Tjaden, of course, but those troops can be federalized

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

JC, most gang members never wanted that life, they simply got caught up into it given a legit alternative I think many would choose it

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

"The Governor, especially a Republican one, has no power here." I think Undr's point was that the IL Gov does have some power - they control the guard (short of being federalized).

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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So the guard moves in. Then what? Still lots of young adult unemployment. Still lots of poverty. etc.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

I get that, point is if he were to do that he'd have no clout whatsoever to encourage cooperation from Chicago

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

It seems to be a knee jerk solution. Just as simplistic as the wall. When the plan fails, it will be the fault of others.

jc @ 5 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

Here is breakdown: 1. Troops 2. Threat mitigation 3. Security 4. Community investment program 5. School analysis and improvement 6. Work/training program 7. Restore/Repeat/Reproduce

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

JC, why do you think it would fail? Why do you think the wall would fail?

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

So when this neighborhood is taken over, redeveloped, and turned back to the community - where will the people who currently live there go since they won't be able to afford living there afterwards?

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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Steps 4-7 sound like a decade of work, like I was saying. That's a long occupation.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um4B_mtxvjI

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

lol at that video this is not gentrification, this is a revival from the inside out it will take time, but the improvement will be immediate and consistent occupation is the wrong term btw

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

Security supplementation is more accurate, and as the neighborhood improves they'll require less and less help

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

voter map's logo should be you and JC beating me with the American gladiator q tips, with UW juggling on the side

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

The wall is basically a joke. see link And then you have tunnels, boats, planes, and when those fail, bribed border guards.

jc @ 5 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Sounds like gentrification could easily happen. Free market, etc. Whatever you want to call it, it will be troops on the ground for a prolonged period of time.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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Otherwise, why not just wait it out for the troops to leave? I miss that show.

Tjaden Froyda @ 5 months ago

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The Chicago plan is not yet a plan. Send in the feds is pretty sketchy. But I'd say that any plan would have to be a minimum comprehensive five year plan.

jc @ 5 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

I'm not sure Trump has that much time.

jc @ 5 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

OK I'm going to go play basketball, and what I mean by that at my age is I'm going to shoot a bunch of 3 point shots and hold the person I'm defending

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

98d7101629a5e7bcbaca8c6c5bd9decc

Thanks for making me the juggler. I'm curious if the Illinois governor perceives that Chicago is in need of federal intervention.

UndrWater @ 5 months ago

Cerritos, CA, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

I'm sure he would like federal intervention. He would just like it in the form of financial aid.

jc @ 5 months ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

0eda15e8a4a685a0722949782c90e863

https://www.change.org/p/barack-obama-rahm-emanuel-bruce-rauner-bring-the-national-guard-to-chicago-to-stop-the-violence

AMi @ 5 months ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

8ccf67d96459570ac1767672354e6326

Federal troops? All federal government can do is assist and over see. like when holder sent in Fed to over see hand ups dont shoot

Free Thinker Loves Jesus @ 5 months ago

Olive Branch, MS 38654, USA

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