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Question: What are the biggest deviations in your view that Johnson/Weld take from libertarian ideals?

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Comments (55)

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Deviations from what I would consider Libertarian?

AMI @ about 1 year ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

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sure

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Arlington Heights, PA, USA

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Well no one individual ever matches another's beliefs line by line. I'm all over the spectrum in my political stances, and every election I do a fair amount of self analysis to see whose positions I align with most. This election it is Gary Johnson

AMI @ about 1 year ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

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and Bill Weld. For me some Libertarians lean too far towards the Anarchist side of the party. Some are too pro abortion. But I look at things holistically and do not allow one singular issue to be weighed too heavily.

AMI @ about 1 year ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

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what he ^^ said

Tjaden Froyda @ about 1 year ago

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what they ^^ said

Taco Bowl @ about 1 year ago

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Ok how about Johnson's position on freedom of association in the business world? He thinks the religious baker should be forced by govt to bake a wedding cake for gays. Also that a Jewish baker should be forced by govt to bake a nazi cake.

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Arlington Heights, PA, USA

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The typical libertarian position here would be that in both cases the business should be able choose who they wish do business with. Essentially they should be allowed to discriminate. Transactions should be voluntary on both sides.

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Arlington Heights, PA, USA

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Thoughts?

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Arlington Heights, PA, USA

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He said the Christian baker, had to bake the cake, they didn't have to decorate it in a way they'd find offensive

AMI @ about 1 year ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

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I think if you own a business, it is a dangerous and regressive precedent that they can refuse to provide a service arbitrarily

AMI @ about 1 year ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

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Dangerous to who? The business owner. The possible consequences fall on who? The business owner.

Taco Bowl @ about 1 year ago

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isn't that the burden you carry as a business owner?

AMI @ about 1 year ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

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It is. Bad business models fail all the time.

Taco Bowl @ about 1 year ago

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justice and freedom rarely go together. one doesnt require the other and the two are often at odds.

[412035] @ about 1 year ago

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aren't they the two sides of the scale? justice and freedom

AMI @ about 1 year ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

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i think unfettered freedom would only protect criminality and that at some level increased surveillance protects a lot of victims, especially children.

[412035] @ about 1 year ago

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freedom is saying "we dont serve pizza to ####s" and then that business getting 1 million dollars in private donations by like minded people, they should be free to say that, but there is no justice in it.

[412035] @ about 1 year ago

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I missed all these responses. My votermap skills are rusty.

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

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Ami it is a much more dangerous precedent to set which allows the govt to force you into doing what they want under the guise morality. This snowballs overtime and send like the enforcement of morality today becomes a tool of control tomorrow.

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Powerhouse Arts District, Jersey City, NJ 07302

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Although were really are at the point where it is about control already.

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Powerhouse Arts District, Jersey City, NJ 07302

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For those that would engage in refusing service for one reason be it religion or race, there but themselves financially and there would be 10 other businesses in line ready to do business.

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

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maybe in an urban area, but not so in a small town

AMI @ about 1 year ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

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or even in some urban neighborhoods there might be only one bakery or flower shop

AMI @ about 1 year ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

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But a market is not static. It will change to fill a void, even in small towns and rural areas

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

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As much as we dislike the idea that some may make bad choices, we must admit that freedom means we are free to do as we please, so long as we don't violate the rights of others. We should stick as close to that as possible

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

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No one has the "right" to engage in a transactions with another. We should not be looking to govt to be an enforcement mechanism for morality

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

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No it won't change just to fill a void. There isn't enough business to keep two bakeries viable in many small towns.

Tjaden Froyda @ about 1 year ago

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That's not true TF. You are oversimplifying how this works.

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

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The bigger question is what gives govt the right to do this?

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

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Johnson fails miserably to take the liberty / libertarian position here.

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

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I'm not oversimplifying things. That's reality. In small towns there won't be 10 other businesses waiting in line for that customer, nor will there be volume to support new businesses to fill that void.

Tjaden Froyda @ about 1 year ago

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Well yeah, ... Except that you are. It can start small, or in neighboring towns, it can drive the restrictive business under some they have a bigger potential market. Having such a rigid view of what is possible in economy is nothing short of silly.

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

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I'm not claiming it is going to solve every single case of discrimination everywhere by presenting better alternatives, but for someone to suggest that is not possible is disingenuous. To be clear, I'm not for discrimination, I'm for liberty. The

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

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good with the bad.  "I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude." --TJ Let's examine it from the other angle. What gives govt the right to force a private transaction when one party is unwilling?

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

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I think you're placing a greater importance on the freedom to discriminate by a business over the freedom to purchase legal goods by the consumer

AMI @ about 1 year ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

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I don't have a rigid view of what's possible. history has shown how discrimination masked as liberty plays out. the government has had to step in because of that reality.

Tjaden Froyda @ about 1 year ago

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It's really one in the same Ami. It's the freedom to engage in a mutually voluntary transaction between two parties. That's a basic pillar of a free society. And now you have the state step in to coerce one side and not the other. The govt forcing

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

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a private party to engage in a private transaction is the opposite of freedom.

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

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Who protects the business when a consumer discriminates against a business owner because of race or religion, or any other reason?

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

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I am fairly sure that the owner of the business can control content

AMI @ about 1 year ago

Naperville, IL 60563, USA

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like you can't just walk into a family restaurant and insist that they put porn on the TV

AMI @ about 1 year ago

Naperville, IL, USA

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No that's not what I'm saying. As a patron you are still free to discriminate. So for example, you like the for at place A and place B but you don't go to A simply because the owner is gay, white, black, or whatever. It's the same thing as place A

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

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saying no gays or no blacks. It's just the other side of what should be a mutually voluntary transaction

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

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Still waiting to hear why the govt even has the right to do this too. I'd violating a right of one to priest the feelings of another. No one has a RIGHT to engage in private trade with another party.

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

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i think ami stumbled on an idea for a pornography centered restaurant.

[412035] @ about 1 year ago

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opening soon in West Virginia! :)

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Harrison, NJ, USA

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too much market saturation of strip clubs in the area.

[412035] @ about 1 year ago

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guess I missed those when I passed through last time. can't see them from the highway. lol

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Newark, NJ, USA

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I'm always stumbling into something, but we're already close to a pornstaurant with tilted kilt and twin peaks

AMI @ about 1 year ago

Naperville, IL, USA

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Twin peaks... none of those around here. Been to a tilted kilt in Jersey City before it closed

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Arlington Heights, PA, USA

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it closed?? I find that hard to believe especially in Jersey

AMI @ about 1 year ago

Naperville, IL, USA

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Hard to believe right? just double checked... Google maps lists out as there, but it doesn't come up as a location when you search on the tilted kilt website

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Arlington Heights, PA, USA

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*lists it

Arlington Heights @ about 1 year ago

Arlington Heights, PA, USA

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they must have missed their protection payment

AMI @ about 1 year ago

Naperville, IL, USA

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