We don't need the wall...But Mexico might!
@ almost 2 years ago
Lakeland, MN, USA
Rosie Perez too?
@ over 1 year ago
Strongsville, OH, USA
@ over 1 year ago
Downtown West, Minneapolis, MN
You're adding nothing to the convo.
Net immigration between US and Mexico is about even over the last several years. If you sample only the past year or two, there is a net emigration to Mexico.
caused by a weaker economy --Obama's fault
tougher border enforcement-- Donald trumps frame of mind.
So what's your point Doc?
That maybe we don't need a wall
Although we need to do something about your little Mogadishu.. If it's creating ISIS types... Better integration perhaps...
@ over 1 year ago
Yorkville, New York, NY
2 Mexicans leave, 8 Syrians enter, nothing to see here, no wall needed.
no border security or patrols needed
save a ton of cash, right doc?
@ over 1 year ago
Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA
c'mon H give her some credit
Punishing the illegals doing the hiring would be a far more cost effective than a 2000 mile wall. But the plan does have some problems. It doesn't work as well in selling the fear that drives political action.
Paul outta Hemet
@ over 1 year ago
Gardnerville, NV 89410, USA
And the "punish the job creators" hurts the two major parties. The Dems won't want to acknowledge the power of job creators. The Reps won't want to use the job creators narrative if they can't use it to play the role of victim.
h2o, what wall will you build to keep out the Syrians? That wall better be high enough to keep out a plane.
Maybe we build it across our beachfronts to keep out boats?
Anyway I think the non-immigrant visa, for tourists etc. is so much easier to get, very little scrutiny in fact, why go through the trouble of formal immigration? That appears to be a far greater danger.
wtf evil, you're getting more delusional as you age... fùcking menopause must really suck, for Mr good bar.
where did I say build a physical wall
(as far as the terrorism issue goes anyway). Most tourists are welcome with open arms...we love them to come spend their money. That's our security floodgate.
Oh, so a theoretical wall then, h2o? 2 Mexicans leave, 8 Syrians come in, nothing to see here, no wall needed? That wall? It's a metaphysical wall now?
ok fine. I'll play. What metaphysical wall will keep the Syrians out?
You can't just hop on a plane without showing your passport Doc.....and only certain passports are allowed to participate in the Visa waiver program (even then you need to submit a simple electronic pre-application nowadays for US admittance).
Midtown, New York, NY
So any "metaphysical wall" obviously would be in the form of visa restrictions for holders of Syrian passports..
Not exactly the same process for everyone coming over as a non-immigrant eh? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_visa_refusal_rate.png
if it's terrorists we're taking about, don't most enter legally? if it's strange brown people who soak a funny language, carry on.
@ over 1 year ago
Cerritos, CA, USA
I was just correcting the Doc on the idea that every country is treated the same when it comes to their would-be tourists. Forget about terrorism, if that's how things worked our illegal immigration problem would be many, many times larger.
Less about brown and language than about where a country is on the HDI index and how stable the govt there is currently.
Did I say every country treats potential tourists the same?
Seemed like it.
There's a pretty high rejection rate on non-immigrant visas for citizens of certain countries. That'd indicate that for them it's not so simple. We' can't be *that* welcoming.
temporary visa. the graphic doesn't show whether it's tourist or employment based.
Westwood, Los Angeles, CA
Lots of student visas from every country you can imagine, as well.
Weren't the Paris terrorists Belgian citizens? I've not heard that the U.S. is overly restrictive on visas for Europeans.
Establishing citizenship in many neutral/favored (from a U.S. standpoint) countries isn't that difficult.
Establish citizenship in Europe, Latin America etc., apply for graduate studies in the U.S., get student visa. That's just one possible path. Foreign grad students fly under the radar in the sciences...they're at least 50% of the class. For post
doctoral gigs I would bet that number is closer to 75%. And from everywhere...South Africa to China, Latin America to the middle east, you name it they're here for a U.S. education.
Medina Township, OH, USA
No link, just a guesstimation based on personal experience. The percent isn't really material...what is, is that there are many such people in the U.S. now and on an ongoing basis.
It's kinda hard to establish citizenship in Europe I believe.. *but* You're exactly right Doc.. The Paris terrorists were Belgian citizens I believe .. Belgium is one of those that qualifies for VWP.. So there's that...major problem.
Not sure it's THE problem. I'm just making the point that all the hand wringing over immigration and the link to terrorism is missing the forest for the trees...our borders are much more porous in other ways that are more likely to be problematic.
I disagree, we need a secure border and for the last 20years we have had anything but. Build the Wall - history has shown time & again walls work. You have them all around you right now - they keep the non-criminals out.
@ over 1 year ago
Yeah let's do that. How much would that cost? Do we wall of the oceans too or just Canada and Mexico? Do you agree to pay your share of taxes required to build it? Who will be kept out with the wall? Mexicans? Hello they don't come here anymore
in case you didn't read the posted article. Canadians don't care to come here. So to sum up, you think we should spend 10 trillion to wall off...Who now???
@ over 1 year ago
Winder, GA 30680, USA
Those chicharo eating bastards have had it too good for too long!
so you 2 are in favor of no border controls?
that's a Strawman. nobody said no border controls except you.
I actually think a wall, IN STRATEGIC LOCATIONS, is a good idea.
I don't think we need to span the entire border.
I think more intelligent border enforcement is needed.
Drones with infrared cameras to detect heat signatures and capture potential illegal aliens.
Increased border guards.
Increased penalties for the illegals, and more importantly, the coyotes who being them across.
I think border security is immensely important.
I like you, H2O, and we agree on many topics...but you gotta stop with the hyperbole.
Not everyone who disagrees with you is your enemy.
Nobody agrees with you 100% of the time.
We need to be able to discuss issues rationally.
I'll agree with Racer. I think strategically located walled areas, particularly in hard to police border regions, may be helpful. But justifying the costs on the basis of the benefit gained is going to be a tough sell...if one lives in the real
world and not political hate n' fear land.
H2O I know you want to look smart by tripping up others. plc plays the same game, in a different manner. It doesn't make you look smart. It makes you look like you got nothing. Surely you can do better.
If you are trying to score points for your side, try coming up with a real point. Something fact based that points up a logical fallacy in someone else's reasoning. For example, in this post I try to show that the astronomical expense of building a
wall such as the Trump crowd advocates is a stupid idea. I do that by providing facts: net migration between the U.S. and Mexico us into Mexico.
That doesn't prove we shouldn't build it, but it certainly is evidence that those who advocate it are reacting to emotions and not facts.
There: see how that works? Now we can discuss our opinions on these facts and not take cheap and frankly desperate sounding shots.
If you're opinion is that we need more security to keep out terrorists, I'll agree to that. The question is how. Do you have any ideas, H2O? Racer threw out some good ideas. Maybe you can add to the discussion in a productive way.
I think if monitored effectively using existing technology, the southern border could be secured relatively cheaply.
High population areas get walls and plenty of border patrols.
More rural areas get surveillance drones to look for activity (infrared, motion, etc).
When an entry party is detected, for waste money chasing them through the desert.
Track their activity, and pick them up when they approach civilization.
Increased the penalty (financial and criminal) for those providing them safe harbor.
Crack down on employers who offer them opportunity in the US.
Make every part off an attempted illegal entry into the US more difficult and painful.
I fully agree with maximizing use of drones. Very efficient and minimizes risk to innocent lives. Implementation is flexible and can be effective even when gradual.
Hudson, WI 54016, USA
drones, personnel detectors, fencing, concrete are all currently in use, but we have administration's, past & present, that really don't give a fùck. (to varying degrees)
Now the current solution is to pardon illegal behavior, grant citizenship,
and you chastise those who disagree. Some are over the top, a 2000 mile concrete wall, but so isn't 12 million criminals being rewarded with benefits and taxpayer funds.
I agree with the idea of deporting illegals when caught.
Especially in the instances of arrests for criminal activity.
I think proof of citizenship should be mandatory in order to receive government benefits.
including enrollment in any school
like I said...make it extremely difficult and undesirable to live a daily life as an illegal immigrant in the US
tough to get in
tough to live
tough to work
deported when caught
Similarly to slave owners, who at least realized the economic ramifications of ending slavery, we as a nation would suffer economically if all the illegals were somehow deported. That's an unfortunate reality.
that's what we forget to do after ending slavery!
Parma Heights, OH, USA
Immigration and trade agreements go hand-in-hand.
If we're gonna get rid of what little cheap labor we have, it's critical that we broker international trade agreements that reflect this reality.
When's Eli Whitney's great-great-grandson gonna invent the lettuce gin?
I was thinking about something though, have you noticed everyone's been concentrating on the *guy* involved with this attack? I think the reason why is because authorities missed signs on the wife involved.
Now apparently, the K-1 visa process especially has become a lot easier and streamlined so perhaps the older process might have signalled something was amiss with this relationship.
Key thing to keep in mind is despite how sexist these cultures are... One very important way for women to eek out a bit more respect and equality is to participate in terror activities. This bítch could have masterminded most of it for all we know.
or been told her child would die if she didn't for all we know...
The administrations that didn't care to stop the inflow of cheap labor were supported by the business owners and consumers who enjoyed the benefits of cheap labor.
The pragmatic solution to the problem we all had some part in is to announce today is the cut off date. They have 30 days to come out of of the shadows to prove employment. They are rewarded with residency rather than citizenship.
excuses...for all we know...
Artesia, CA, USA
Paul, the cons will never, ever agree to just allow those who came here illegally to stay.
Except the ones that make their food, mow their lawns, wash their dishes, and clean their toilets.
Oh and of course in the case of Donald Trump, we make an exception for immigrants we want to fúck.
how are the animals, Pink?
Northwest Torrance, Torrance, CA
Doc - And the libs never want to talk about how ridiculous to jump past the residency option straight to citizenship.
see how useful this binary thinking is? sigh.
Torrance, CA, USA
died Water I will never love again
9330-9398 S 8th Ave, Inglewood, CA 90305
thaks..kicking around getting a dog or a Syrian refugee
why not both?
South Redondo, Redondo Beach, CA
it's sometimes difficult to find a dog that's good with Syrians
I love their 404 page: "The Cambodian sweatshop where every letter of The Onion is hand-stitched onto the internet recently burned to the ground, claiming the lives of hundreds of underage laborers and webpages."
Southwood, Torrance, CA
"The URL you were looking for was tragically among those lost."
@doc - your url has a word that yodamap censors.
hence...linky no worky
Stone Mountain, GA 30083, USA
I found it...the word is åssholes
check out the big brains on Brad
Sorry guys! didn't think about that when posting. Basically an Onion article about Mexico building a wall to keep the ássholes from the U.S. out.
Lakeland, MN 55043, USA
and let's their lowlife cross into the US, win win for the cans
Spotsylvania Courthouse, VA 22553, USA
hey, WE'RE here water brother! have some tolerance! this country does for us!
I think he meant that as a compliment.
They're MexiCANS...not MexiCANT'S!
Lilburn, GA 30047, USA
Sí se puede!