Of course he does......
Cheney Advocates For ‘Military Force’ In Iran Instead of Negotiations
@ about 2 years ago
Troy, MI, USA
ok. So where is he wrong?
@ about 2 years ago
Lol, surprise surprise.
@ about 2 years ago
Palo Alto, CA, USA
First he's a neocon chicken hawk coward.
@ about 2 years ago
Temple, TX, USA
where is he wrong?
@ about 2 years ago
yes, where is he wrong? Please be better than a name calling zero substance poster like some have already shown themselves to be. Where is he wrong?
dick cheney and his rash grunt understanding of international politics is the reason why we wasted trillions in Iraq and Afghanistan and got no fruit. God help us if Jeb wins the presidency.
Do you honestly think you understand international policy and politics better than Dick?
he is wrong because we have went down this road and it has cost us trillioans and blood. another campaign of war this time with a viable country would be disasterous economically and p.r-wise when it comes to muslim relations.
lol..... a brian dead imp understands international policy better than dick cheney. What you have to understand about dick cheney, plc, is thatwar is good for business.
1st of all, I don't believe he is calling for a war at this time. What he said is that military action has worked to thwart nuclear proliferation in the middle east in the past.
My favorite part is where Iran has been two years away from a nuke for over three decades.
When dealing with a country like Iran, a strong stance is perhaps a better policy than conceding.
I also think you're overestimating Irans military viability.
And PR among muslim countries has never been worse. Even with obama in office. There are some things we shouldnt concern ourselves with. PR among any group of countries being one. Smells a little PC to me.
Iran is ranked 23 in military power. Between Brazil and Sweden. BRAZIL and SWEDEN! Poland, Taiwan, and Canada (YES CANADA!) rank higher than Iran.
common PLC this isnt like the Haliburton queen hasnt been in the switch throwing position before. We know what cheney in power would do..... So don't act like you don't know what cheney means when he says "military action".
you say 23rd like that is a very low ranking. war with a country combined with the many world wide campaigns we are pursuing would leave us with a military that is even thinner spread military than we already have.
LOL! Haliburton Queen"! Hating much? I didn't know the VP was the switch thrower. And 23 is pretty low. Look at the ranking yourself. I wouldnt consider them a viable threat. Thin military? We should boost it up then.
I don't think you're looking at the issue as much as the source. Your hatred of Cheney leads to discount everything he says. No bueno!
boost it up? it is hatred of what cheney did as vice president that makes me discredit his entire validity as an accurate and sound opinion when it comes to foriegn policy. From his out right lying in his testimony in regards to WMD's in Iraq to his
hawking approach to just about every foriegn policy issue we have come accross
You are an overweight white women
YOU'VE BEEN WHITELASHED!
@ about 2 years ago
North Royalton, OH, USA
i got big tits too
You know they found the WMDs, right?
What did he do as VP? Please provide something that verifiable.
lol oh they did did they?? you I used to work with a crackpot in SC that swore up and down a WMD's were found, BUT gave no proof. Can you? The world has accepted that it was a lie why dont you?
Warren, MI, USA
Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Project for a new american century
srorriM & ekomS
@ about 2 years ago
involuntary rectal feeding as opposed to voluntary :-)
Strongsville, OH, USA
BTW, I totally agree with Cheneys statements in your first link. The second seems to be written by a person holding a personal grudge. But again, I generally agree with his (Cheneys) positions.
Apparently you don't. To each his own. We all have our own opinions on how things should be handled.
so...sodomy is OK?
@ about 2 years ago
Cerritos, CA, USA
I mean...of a prisoner...suspected guilty, but not yet proven so.
Sodomy? Is taking a babys rectal temperature sodomy? Sodomy is sexual in nature.
Sounds kind of relaxing actually
OFMG shut the #### up PLC...... you speak so highly of laws and rights when it comes to regular people, but when applying the rule of law to your neocon masters you make every excuse and justification you can....pathetic.
Charter Township of Clinton, MI, USA
Does this mean you have no answer? Can't say I'm surprised. These silly posts usually result in insults, outbursts and zero substance. At least you're consistent.
answer to what?
No when facts are laid out in front of you make dumb statements that circumvent the facts. that is what typicslly happens
Fraser, MI, USA
your double standards invalidate you.
Awesome. No answers. Just anger and hatred for things you are incapable of understanding. I call it the "Idiot Know it all" syndrome. Thinking you know when you are actually as ignorant of the truth as can be.
I hope that one day you'll be able to engage in dialogue without the childish insults and anger. State your opinion. Listen to the others opinions. Lay out facts (if u have any) and understand that we will not all agree
this coming from the biggest insulter. If you notice I only insult you. The only type of comments you make are insulting, so stop with the bull####. You are telling you agree with a man that has given the ok to torture, and defile human beings.
you do all this big talk about the constitution and the law, how can you really agree with the things dick cheney has done?
PLC, it was your link that described that particular activity as sodomy.
"Beyond the drips, the documents show that the CIA had a predilection for violating detainees' rectums. Previously leaked documents showed that agents "sodomized, tortured" a German-born terror suspect back in 2003..."
what you get for allowing gays in government.
@ about 2 years ago
Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA
My assessment of Cheney is that he has no consideration for what they know of as "blowback" with regard to foreign military intervention. He, like others with this attitude, are ALWAYS willing to move w/out considering that.
@ about 2 years ago
Franklin, TN, USA
As far as I'm concerned, we'll NEVER not be involved in that region, however, as a nation we can't afford his singleness of mind. Hell, we must consider ALL appropriate actions with other nations.
Oh the ignorance! Man you guys missed a great show last night. Prince is fućking amazing. For the first time in my adult life I was proud to be Puerto Rican, I mean american.
Cheney for President!
The guy is an actual cyborg
An actual cyborg? Wow!
We should have a cyborg for President then!
President of the Neocon, Warmongering, draft deferments, chicken hawks cowardice society of America. Cheney's brave because he doesn't have to strap up.
Neither of them are involved with companies that directly profit from war
I'm no fan of Obama or Clinton for that matter, but Cheney is a piece of #### and a war criminal
That's not what he said. He said "Cheneys brave because he doesn't have to strap up". Did you see that?
Cheney is the ####ing man! Because of guys like him, you have the freedom to spew the garbage you do. Because of patriots like him. You can enjoy the freedoms we have. We need more Cheneys and less yous.
Too bad you are too blind to realize this.
You should say thank you.
Sorry they didn't have the draft during Obama. It was all volunteer.
He coulda volunteered. I did. What about Clinton?
Different standards based on political affiliation?
Same boat as Cheney, he came up with an excuse when his name was called, but he wasn't trying to send the military to fight everywhere.
Cheney hasn't fought for sh!t but the profit margin of Halliburton.
Neither is Cheney.
Only where necessary.
I didn't know you worshipped Darth Cheney so fervently. I mean it figures, given you're like a characature of a slimey, bootlicking, neocon. You really are a joke.
I don't worship anyone. I agree with most of his views. That's all. I'm sorry you're not mature enough to understand that.
Iraq wasn't necessary. Saddam was only a threat to his own people.
Thank you for your opinion. Some feel differently.
But what does that have to do with Cheney?
No only Bush and Cheney felt that way. They lied to convince the Democrats in Congress and the American public with their fear mongering. With the mushrooms cloud rhetoric. Iraq had everything to do with Cheney.
Are you saying democrats are that stupid?
Some not all. Even Colin Powell apologized for lying to the World and the America public. Are you saying it still people around that dumb believing their lies about Saddam capabilities in Iraq.
Killeen, TX 76543, USA
The den front runner for 2016 voted for it. Witn good reason.
republicans are the stupid party PLC. democrats are the welfare party.
@ about 2 years ago
Monroeville, PA, USA
I beg to differ. BOTH parties are the stupid parties and BOTH parties are the welfare parties. (And special interests parties and big business parties and pandering parties and and and)
that's a weird thing for you to say and I don't know if I can take it seriously.
Somerset, PA, USA
Don't really care how you take it.
I'll take it as an admission of bisexuality then.
Juniata, PA, USA
She has also apologized for that vote, and for being misled by the Bush administration's outlandish rhetoric and lies.
So she admitted to being stupid and you're still going to vote for her. Awesome. Hyperpartisanship all the way! God Bless America.
She's who the Democrats chose,_He has to vote for her.You go right ahead B it's a free country. Vote for who you're told to vote for
But you're sticking behind the words of a known liar, war criminal, draft dodging, deferments using, war profiteering coward. that still didn't stop pinky and you from voting for them after dropping the ball which cause the worst attack on America's
soil in the history of the country.
Bell County, TX
fundamentally transforming the country forever
Parma, OH, USA
Yes Bush and Cheney did after dropping the ball before 9/11. With the establishment of wiretapping, patriot act, expanding NSA capabilities, and torture.
And that was a big power grab...right after 9/11, the Bush administration took advantage of the fear that permeated everything to shove the PATRIOT Act down our collective throats. They sealed the deal by telling everyone: if you're not with us
@ about 2 years ago
Bella Vista, Panama
on this, you're with the terrorists! Think how ridiculous that is...but they totally managed to get away with that. No room for dissent, free speech be damned, get on board or get out.
Congress was pretty much coerced into passing that horrendous act right into law, no debate, no nothing. Idiot congressmen scared they might not get re-elected, or scared they would be labeled terrorists...it was all so McCarthy-esque.
and Obama reenforced and expanded it.
no room for partisanship here
Yes it always room for partisanship when someone is backing Cheney war mongering. Yes he continued the rights stealing acts signed into law by Bush.
Coryell County, TX
H2O...how disingenuous of you. Apparently everyone must be an idiot except you. Whatever gets you by I guess, but watch out. Your little fantasy is pretty fragile.
La Chorrera, Panama
Cheney is the man. All this war criminal nonsense is just that. Nonsense. He did a great job serving this country. Please remember that he was never POTUS. The U.S. needs more Cheneys.
Stop inhaling model car glue, you're sounding delusional. NO Cheney was overseeing for the torture chambers\ blacksites around the world.
Thank you! Thats what Ive been saying. No Cheney was overseeing any torture chambers or blacksites. Thanks for backing my point. Torture is bad. We didnt torture.
According to the Geneva convention it was torture. Last time I checked the United States was govern by those guidelines in time of War. OH I forgot Cheney never served, so he made his own rules.
bhaven Colin Powell apologizing put him in a whole new light for me. I could appreciate a person who has the insight to reflect on the past and can recognize a mistake. Dick Cheney reminiscing on whether he made a mistake with Iraq made me want to
pull my hair out. according to him all the decisions made were right.
Jeez PLC reading your commentsleads me to believe you are spoofing, or incredibly stupid. I am going to give you the benifit of the doubt and go with spoofing.
Not spoofing nor incredibly stupid. I just see things differently than you. And Bhaven. (Thank god!). Believe it or not, there are other opinions besides your own.
Just waiting for you to tell the truth. But it seem you're blinded my Cheney lack of truthfulness.
What truth are you waiting to hear?
Truth, or truth? Either way...it always seems to change.
Artesia, CA, USA
Does it? I don't believe the truth ever changes. Just what we believe the truth to be.
the critical mass of belief makes truth. that's why it can change.
The critical mass of belief? WTF??
Californians are weird.
critical mass of belief makes a social norm, not a truth. Really, how can there be a simple truth in a matter such as deciding it's justifiable to go in as a country and kill a bunch of people? whether there was sufficient justification is a highly
subjective set of criteria in the case of any war.
That being said I never, ever once saw any justification whatsoever. I just kept thinking, why are they doing this? Iraq doesn't have anything to do with 9/11. yet somehow it was justified.
That whole McCarthy-esque thing going on at that time was designed, successfully, to manipulate the weak minded into going along with anything these guys said. it was really unbelievable.
I think that is the "truth" Undr speaks of.
So I guess all one can say is, people like plc are easily swayed by government manipulation.
Congratulations on being a good little government drone, I guess.
You're in good company plc, most of our esteemed U.S. Congressmen were also swayed into the irrational belief that we needed to invade a foreign country of some sort to show we have balls. Never mind which one, as long as they're brown and have oil.
You don't know much, do you?
I listen to people like you and I wonder if I should start a class on common sense. Repeating the same, already debunked, arguments only makes you look worse (if that's even possible) than ever.
Don't get me wrong. IF we went into Iraq as a 9/11 retaliatory attack, you would have a point. You would finally have a valid point. But as usual your premise is skewed to fit your narrow minded mentality. Sorry.
I know you believe what you say plc. But that is on you not me. Pity you are led around by the nose so easily.
And to your other comment, In pretty sure you don't know much either, as a shill for the government you selectively filter out what
they tell you isn't true while believing what they tell you hook line and sinker. Doesn't count as "knowing" anything really does it? Sorry.
As a representative of the knuckle draggers of this country, you at least have numbers on your side. I suppose that makes you feel smart, or perhaps superior in some way. Yeah, stick with that.
It's not about feeling superior to anyone. Ever. Not for me. I do get that impression from you and others here on VM.
I wish we could just have a conversation. Without the anger and insults. I know your opinion. I respect that you feel the way you feel. Like it's been said before, you have the right to your own opinion.
But not your own facts.
Why am I not granted the right to my own opinion? Without being called silly names?
"Either you're with us, or the terrorists."
Ok. What's wrong with that?
PLC, great point about the insults and all. Please understand that from where I write, "you don't know much", sounds like an insult. especially when attached to a political / historical event where multiple "truths" have been manufactured.
If you have some form of absolute truth that everyone can accept, I'm sure most of us would be willing to listen.
It is an insult. I admit that. Which is why I say I wish WE could. There's a history that I wish we could get past. I'm willing to start from now. I don't know if others are willing.
As far as multiple truths, I disagree. There's only one truth. An opinion doesn't make a truth.
This goes back to the whole fact vs opinion debate. Many don't differentiate. There's a huge difference.
You cannot tell me with a straight face that you know "the facts" unless you are privy to the innermost working of an administration. Yeah, I don't know much. But neither do you.
Correct, I am not entitled to my own facts. Neither are you.
Stop trying to imply you know facts you don't. Stop trying to pretend your knowledge is superior and you know things no one else does, and maybe we can discuss.
Let's start with "if you're not with us, you're with the terrorists." I think we can agree that in fact, that attitude was present from 9/11 at least through the end of the Bush era. Yes?
at no time did I say I am privy to any facts not publicly known. If that's what you read, I apologize. That's not what I said or meant.
You said to me: you don't know much do you. This certainly implies that you know at least one thing I don't, probably many things I don't. Or did I somehow take that the wrong way??
Just because you didn't say that verbatim doesn't mean shít. Let's not be disingenuous.
There are many things I know that you don't and there are many things you know that I dont.
Do we want to get hung up on an admitted insult?
As for the "if you're not with us, you're with the terrorist" quote. It was appropriate. At the time and in the context it was delivered. In my opinion. Was it the attitude? Of what? By who? That's a little broad.
If you're against our policies, you are anti-American...That was the message. That message is as anti-American as you can get, imo.
Punta Paitilla, Panama
But that wasn't the message. He wasn't talking to Americans when he said that. Which is why I say context.
Let me rephrase that. He was addressing congress when he said that. But the message wasn't for congress, America or Americans. It was for certain foreign countries. Appropriately so. IMO
So, similar to the McCarthy era, Congressmen who don't fall in line are suspect as being with the terrorists? Again, very anti-American. Silence the dissenters! Silence those not in agreement with POTUS! How is that ok?
Who Bush intended to address when he said that is irrelevant imo. Remember, our Government = us. This is supposedly a representative republic, true? Or was there a suspension of that principle?
Outre greatest strength imo is our freedom to dissent. Disagreement with elected officials is the very bedrock of the republic. Bush weakened us by attempting to clamp down on free exchange of ideas.
He didn't tell Confress that they had to either be with him or with the terrorist like you're making it sound. He didn't say that at all. Who the message was for is quite relevant.
"Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists,"
Talking about countries harboring terrorists. I don't see a problem with that. If he told Congress that they should support him or risk being considered a terrorist, that would be different. But that's not the case.
Telling the world that we will not bow to terrorists anymore is not silencing dissent in the U.S. It's putting the world on notice that we will not tolerate terrorists or anyone who aids them.
And I am quite ok with that stance.
but even with that context, it's inappropriate. thinking "war on terror", that would put us at war with any nation who disagreed with US policies.
Bixby Knolls, Long Beach, CA
I would be disappointed if we had the opposite. If we sympathized and aided countries that fund, harbor and otherwise support terrorists groups and terrorist ideologies.
PLC you got that link? explaining where those WMD's are?
I posted that already
lol really! you think we don't fund terrorist states??? hahahahaha
We funded IRAQ. For years and years. Installed a leader there of our choosing, gave them weapons. Then we decided we didn't like them anymore so now they are a "terrorist" state. Do you think they changed, or was it us changing our minds?!
Iran. Syria. Egypt. we mess with everyone amd everything then call it terrorism when there is blowback.
Blowback: Bill Clinton wandering the halls of the White House again with nothing to do
he'll always have something to do as long as their are interns around.
Killeen, TX, USA
Blowback: giving a hummer in heavy winds
we used to be friends with Russia, China, & Iran also.
We used to trust frenchie, killed Brits, shot Italians, hated the Irish,
And it's our destiny to conquer everything.
plc's implied assertion that the U.S. doesn't fund terrorist states is incorrect, I do believe. he said he would be disappointed if we did that, so I assume his failure to respond means he's off somewhere sobbing?
glad you're agreeing with me this time h2o. After the last round I guess it's the prudent thing to do lol.
somenody is off somewhere sobbing? Not understanding.
Proud Latin Conservative...what does that even mean?
Google translate it.
If you don't get paid to post this garbage, I feel badly for you.
Don't we all get paid to post on VM?
I thought Google paid all of us. To test Google translate. Beta. Am I wrong? Creo que no.
Yikes! A slip up.
patriot act extension, 2011. OBAMA
NDAA 2012, OBAMA
section 215, Patriot act, set to expire 2015, Obama supports renewal
seems to me partisan politics don't apply.
both suck,,, you know the feeling
Fort Belvoir, VA, USA
So...avoiding me I guess plc? No problem. h2o ran away from me too. Damn it's hard being right all the time.
You are quite right h2o. This time.
How am I avoiding you?
Really. How disingenuous of you plc. You said you were happy we didn't fund terrorist states, and that Bush's message was intended to reinforce that message. I called bullshít on you. Care to refute that call? If not, what was Bush saying,
and to whom was it addressed...in reality, not your fantasy world where the U.S., and/or Bush/Cheney can do no wrong?
How is telling foreign nations that they're either with us or with the terrorist clamping down on the free exchange of ideas here at home?
Does that refresh your memory? If not I'll declare another win amd move on.
We concern ourselves (rightfully so) with terrorist organizations that target us. Self interests. If we friend someone who is terrorizing a common enemy, we're furthering our nations best interests.
a win? LOL. Are you looking for a win? This is a discussion. An exchange of ideas. Didn't we say that yesterday? Must everything be so contentious? Must everything be a fight? Sheesh!
You feel you won because you like your opinion better than my opinion. LOL. Some things never change.
I see. So it's ok to fund terrorist states, in your opinion, even though we don't find terrorist states. Impeccable reasoning right there. When your facts are wrong, change your opinion: ok to fund terrorist states. Got it.
So exactly what was Bush saying when he declared, either you're with us or you're with the terrorists? Using your logic that it's ok to fund terrorist states when it suits our needs?
Because the last time around your position depended on your happiness that we don't fund terrorists, because we stand for all that's pure and virtuous.
Because that's exactly what I said. SMH! And so dies adult conversation on VM. It's hopeless!
"Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists"
How does that translate to "Bush weakened us by attempting to clamp down on free exchange of ideas."
and you call democrats drones........
I call all hyperpartisans drones. The extreme left like you and the extreme right like others.
"with us". our response was to strike out angrily with incomplete intelligence at any target that looked suspicious. "against us". If you don't help us strike out at any target that looked suspicious, you're likely to be targeted too.
Will you be joining the conversation or will you just take shots from the peanut gallery? Please feel free to join in and contribute your views. Without insults or childishness.
the free exchange of ideas is a good thing, not just nationally, but globally. If we're telling our allies and partners that they're terrorists for having different ideas...Is that really a free exchange?
If our allies and partners are knowingly and willingly aiding and hosting organizations known to terrorize us, are they really allies and partners?
If you support those that have and wish to continue to hurt us, how can you expect us to support you?
so...If I am not willingly aiding and / or hosting, yet I still disagree with your practices; am I with you or with the terrorists?
Southeast Torrance, Torrance, CA
why not neither? why can't I be with an intelligent and appropriate response to an event? why can't I be with an open exchange of ideas between nations involved with the event?
If you are neither supporting nor hosting nor aiding the enemy in any way, you are welcome to engage in the conversation as you wish.
What is an intelligent and appropriate response to murdering 3,000 innocent Americans simply because they're American?
addressing the actual people responsible for the action?
@ about 2 years ago
Northlake, Tucker, GA
Which is what we did.
WE support those who wish to hurt us! Those are the facts. WE GIVE TERRORISTS THE TOOLS THEY NEED TO HURT US.
Clayton County, GA
Hey it's back in the USA.
@ about 2 years ago
Rose Hill, New York, NY
Atlanta, GA 30354, USA
Those are the facts? Really?
Sadly yes. It's wrong imo, but true. I don't know that we'll ever know the extent of those facts. Particularly the weapons part.
Atlanta, GA 30337, USA
So. ..in your opinion those are the facts?
@ about 2 years ago
Villa Park, IL 60181, USA
in my opinion it's wrong to do that.
If we don't know the extent of the facts, how do we know them to be facts?
Sgt. Friday...is that you?
DeKalb County, GA
We know some things happened. We don't know the extent. Like I said already.
No. Not at all. What do we know happened? Enlighten me. Where has the U.S. armed terrorists with weapons to use against the U.S.
When is it proper for us to involve ourselves
Addison, IL, USA
Are you asking me?
it's open for all to answer
When it's in our national interests. Vague enough for ya?
Sounds vague but I think we should always be willing to involve ourselves and attempt to steer a conflict to an end that is beneficial to the U.S.
That involvement could be small or large. Depending on the situation, of course. It could be covert or overt.
can you quickly summarize why Iraq was in our national interest?
Villa Park, IL, USA
so, not hosting / supporting = "with us". us there any evidence to suggest that's what the Bush admin meant?
Southwood, Torrance, CA
Thats what he said. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sfNROmn7bc
Iraq provides about 3% of our imported oil
You wanted a quick answer. I gave you a quick answer. If you want the whole opinion, it won't fall under quick.
It's not only Iraqi oil thats a concern but rather the region. We have a vested interest in the region and should interfere when circumstances threaten that interest.
Iraqi actions threatened the region.
That wasn't the Bush's administration stated national interest goal, they gave to the American public for justify the attack on Iraq.
that's not exactly what he said, PLC. "if you're doing these things, we'll consider you hostile." that pretty well encompasses "against us", but doesn't do a good enough job of defining "with us". perhaps you don't care about or see the nuance.
I dont do nuance. Do you feel he was talking to US congressmen? Or what do you feel? You havent stated. You (and others) are merely trying to dissect what I say without committing yourself.
2 conversations at once is always fun.
1. Sadaam was in violation of agreement established after the Gulf War.
2. The Clinton administration did a poor job of holding him accountable.
3. Sadaam had chemical weapons which were moved. He had WMDs.
4. These WMDs were of l
little threat to us.
5. The cost of the Iraq War and the subsequent power vacuum it left in its wake were not in our best interests.
3.5 out of 5 ain't bad.
It also made Iran stronger. ...btw what a cluster fúck this "agreement" is turning out to be
1. fact. 2. I agree with your opinion. 3. I agree. 4. put in the word "directly" and I agree. 5. I disagree.
were the wmd's the ones we gave him?
PLC, I'm not trying to dissect what you say. you admitting the inability to "do nuance" helps me understand your opinion. in this case, it doesn't appear valuable to debate this further.
South Redondo, Redondo Beach, CA
inability or unwillingness I should have said.
This "agreement" is nothing more than a thinly veiled smack to the face of Israel. Anyone who thinks that Iran is trustworthy doesn't deserve to be in office. IMO.
1. Does it matter if the WMDs are the ones we gave him? 2. Why don't you answer my question?
UWater, the answer to your question is effectively no. We never gave him chemical/biological weapons. That weaponry was developed in house
That said we certainly were not overly concerned with such armaments in 80s. We were more concerned with keeping Iran in check
Even if we did, would it make a difference?
Sadaam ruined a good thing by invading Kuwait
He did. Even if he had a pretty good reason to do it.
This is like watching the special Olympics...you guys should do a couple laps with some scissors and see what happens.
We never gave him weapons? Lolz! Only 3%? Nbd.
It was totally worth the $ and lives. Let's try it with Iran.
VM! Gotta Love It! One of the few places where "We never gave him chemical/biological weapons" somehow equals "We never gave him weapons"!!! LMMFAO!
Where did the chemicals come from?
its a good thing we created isis for those dormant weapons we sold them 20 years prior.
Sorry, I missed the question.
It's not important what I feel. There was, however, a perception that he was speaking to everyone. This perception was ubiquitous enough to make its way into mainstream media.
I don't recall him ever trying to manage that perception.
forget weapons from 20 (really 30) years ago, ISIS is enjoying US weaponry left behind by the fleeing Iraqi army just recently (which we abandoned)
Oakbrook Terrace, IL, USA
because we left so much there, both sides have our weaponry.
Where did Saddam get the chemicals?
Maybe Bush gave them to him.
Maybe he got them from.......Dr Evil!
That's what I thought chump
I know that's what you thought. Google translate told me so. Chump? WTF is this? 1976? You need a better insult.
The amount of chemical weapons believed to be in Iraq was based loosely on the export records of American British, and German companies that were selling the components to Iraq. These contracts continued right up to the day Iraq invaded Kuwait.
@ about 2 years ago
Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA
But I don't believe they were selling them for nefarious reasons. They were medical supplies that Saddam re allocated to weapon use. I could be wrong, but I believe this is the case.
I believe at least one facility used in the weapons program was biilt by an American company. It's been a long time, but all of this was covered extensively in the British press. Not so much in our press because neither party could claim ignorance
There is no evidence I can find that we sold Iraq chemical weapons
There is evidence that we sold them medical supplies which were then weaponized by Sadaam and used on his own people.
Thats what I was going to say.
Two things are fairly certain:
1. Sadaam did have WMDs
2. We were partially responsible for him having them.
That's an understatement.
Here's an old account. But still interesting.
I don't believe Iraq was a threat to the US or anyone else. The country was dessimated in the first gulf war. Saddam was in a no win position. His bravado, and his inferences about having nuclear capability was his only defense against regional
enemies. Allowing inspectors to disprove his claims would prove his country was defensless.
I don't think his enemies believed his bravado
In what way was the country decimated in the first gulf war?
Just about in every way. Infrastructure, military, economy. And nobody was standing on line to help rebuild the country. They were a threat to no one.
I'd have to disagree. While the economy and military took a big hit, the infrastructure was largely untouched. The majority of damage inflicting activity took place outside of the built up cities.
I think to say the country was decimated is a bit of a stretch.
With their oil, the economy wouldn't be bad for long and the military was quickly rebuilt. They were of no threat to U.S. But a legitimate threat to further disruptions in the region. Namely Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.
IMHO, of course.
Yeah, that Kuwait thing worked out so well the first time. I'll bet he was dying to try it again. Ha!
I don't know how you can say their military was rebuilt. They had no air force, little armor, and very few nations willing to sell them anything that wasn't surplus junk.
Again, a threat to no one.
IMHO, as well.
Agree to disagree. Again.
I don't know how you can say their infrastructure was decimated when we didn't go into most of the country.
Johns Creek, GA, USA
" Coalition bombing raids destroyed Iraqi civilian infrastructure. 11 of Iraq's 20 major power stations and 119 substations were totally destroyed, while a further six major power stations were damaged."
" At the end of the war, electricity production was at four percent of its pre-war levels. "
" Bombs destroyed the utility of all major dams, most major pumping stations, and many sewage treatment plants, Telecommunications equipment, port facilities, oil refineries and distribution, railroads and bridges were also destroyed."
The Nighthawk was quite effective
Ok. That sounds pretty decimated. Looked fine in 1991 and in 2003.
Wikipedia says so. It must be true.
" In 1991 war, 700 targets were identified and bombed, 28 were "key nodes" of electrical power generation. The allies flew 215 sorties against the electrical plants, using unguided bombs, TC, and laser guided GBU-110 bombs. "
" Between the sixth and seventh days of the air war, the Iraqis shut down what remained electrical grid "not an electron was flowing" said one target planner."
" The UNDP report  emphasized that about 70% of Iraq’s installed power generating capacity was damaged or destroyed during the 1991 Gulf War. All major power stations were damaged and nearly 80% of the gas turbines units were affected."
" The destroyed electricity generating stations and oil refineries were partially repaired during Iraq’s reconstruction campaign of 1991-1993 . However, without the spare parts required during the economical sanction imposed on Iraq..."
"... only about 5300 MW generating capacity was repaired."
Duluth, GA, USA
Give him a hand folks. The boy can quote.
We åss fücked them pretty hard and dry.
And such great sources. I am so impressed.
Yeah...I prefer quoting actual data than just making shït up and blindly speculating.
I'm funny that way
" I don't know how you can say their infrastructure was decimated when we didn't go into most of the country."
Not just in that way.
Just because we didn't have boots on the ground, doesn't mean we can't inflict a lot of damage.
Just watch what you're quoting. Just a suggestion.
Of course, you're privy to a lot more sensitive intelligence data then the rest of us, so you probably know more about this than we do.
Anyone who refers to wiki as "actual date" is funny in many ways.
Was wiki my only source?
Do you have data that refutes what I've posted?
It was until I called you on it
Or do you just like making shït up?
I thought you were supposed to be the guy with the inside government connections?
isn't that what you always imply?
Then you used the "crimes against humanity" source. Awesome.
btw...the first link I posted was from fas.org
that's the Federation of American Scientists
Gwinnett Place, GA, USA
do you have any data that refutes what I've posted?
Anything that suggests that the infrastructure of Iraq was not severely damaged as you've implied?
Either Racer got suddenly really pathetic or you sir, are not Racer.
Decimated or severely damaged? JC is quite capable of handling his own
otherwise...admit that you don't know what the fück you're talking about
...and apologize for insinuating that you have any insight into government affairs at any level higher than police station janitor
I've spent more nights in Iraq than you have between your wife's legs. Despite what wiki has taught you to believe
so...you have no evidence to refute my posts?
I thought not
Of course he doesn't. He specializes in the "because I said so" argument. When his strawman arguments are obliterated it's his fallback.
Then it's a muddling of OPINION vs FACT. And when all else fails a cheap shot featuring your wife's vagina or your alleged sexual orientation.
I think it's a cultural, machismo thing...he's so obsessed with winning the argument he forgets to actually support his claims with anything but anecdotal experience.
it does sound suspiciously like "I declare it!"
PLC, racer provided sources that contradict your admitted opinion. I get that you don't like the sources, and I'm sure your opinion is based on more reliable ones.
the simple thing to do is just provide them.
he can't...they're Top Secret
Winder, GA 30680, USA
unfortunately, you don't have the required security clearance
i think plc just used the infamous "i don't need sources because i live in texas" line.
wikipedia is a heavily moderated information site with every piece of information sourced by a credible authority and scrutinized by the international assortment of its users and moderators.
i welcome plc to change anyting on it and see how long it stays up. i guarantee if i made a page called plc and its body be "is a moron." it would get deleted in under 3 seconds.
meanwhile plc can lie about who actually created stop and frisk and when called on it he will tell you he cant handle more than one person at a time.
plc's defense of the usa patriot act is "do you personally know anyone that had freedom lost?" and if you didn't go to high school with the person it doesn't count.
fyi though, plc is right when he says he was in iraq more than racer was between his wifes legs. its why racer is still married and plc is not.
racer doesn't actually need social services to monitor his time with his children.
that was mean, im sorry. i take it all back.
LMMFAO!!!!! "wikipedia is a heavily moderated information site with every piece of information sourced by a credible authority and scrutinized by the international assortment of its users and moderators." LMMFAO!!!!!!!!!
Where did this conversation go wrong?
In the meantime, it's a little weird reading Josh ride my dick like this. A bit uncomfortable. But totally expected. He has an axe to grind. I did expose #### about him that I shouldn't of. I regret that.
I think the conversation went wrong when you made a comment that was considered by multiple users to be inaccurate, and rather than supporting your comment against the evidence that refutes it, you began acting like a dïck.
Dunwoody, GA, USA
You're still wrong.
Now everyone just knows that you're incapable of supporting your position, and refuse to acknowledge ever being wrong.
Atlanta, GA 30328, USA
even over silly, insignificant bullshït
it shows your character
your desire to appear knowledgeable about all things pertaining to police or military activities stifles your ability to openly participate in dialogue
Atlanta, GA 30327, USA
What comment did I make?
everyone knew you were wrong the second you made the comment
by not retracting it...or attempting to support it...now they also know you're a narrow-minded, ignorant, internet blowhard
Town Center, GA, USA
"the infrastructure was largely untouched"
the comment that was immediately refuted
the comment that's being discussed
the comment you cannot defend, so you're squirming
Acworth, GA 30102, USA
Now I ask you "racer", Is this how you "openly participate in dialogue"? Is this how civil adults discuss matter?
Because I think otherwise. If you want to discuss these, and any other opinions, we can do so. But that would require you speaking like an educated civil adult. Are you capable of that?
I refuted your comment, with multiple sources providing evidence to support my position.
you started flailing wildly
this is a YOU problem
The conversation was with JC, correct? At what point did you involve yourself? Did you offer an opinion? A disagreement? Or did you attempt to go full blast?
p.s. you're still squirming, and only proving my point
Acworth, GA, USA
Ok. I see that you are incapable of having a big boy conversation so I will leave it at that. From my experience and recollection, the country of Iraq was NOT decimated at the conclusion of the Gulf War.
I involved myself when I chose to.
I'm sorry...are you accusing me of picking on you?
They did sustain considerable damage but I wouldn't call it decimated. If you want to disagree thats up to you. I clearly stated that this is my humble opinion.
you made an inaccurate comment.
I pointed it out
you acted like a schmuck
you still have yet to either retract your comments, or defend them
you are possibly the biggest baby on this forum
But I will no longer lower myself to your mud throwing antics. It's silly, childish, immature and unnecessary. That behaviors stifles open honest dialogue. I don't know if you understand that. Have a great day.
I always do!
"I will no longer (fill in the deplorable behavior)."
This is what you say every time you're nailed down by someone that you can't run away from.
After acting like a dïck, and refusing to address legitimate arguments relevant to the discussion, you try to take the high ride and act like you're being noble.
such a drama queen
Marietta, GA 30066, USA
@ over 1 year ago
Downtown West, Minneapolis, MN
I'd rather be confused with Inex than you. At least Inex didn't facilitate the sex abuse of his own children.
@ over 1 year ago
Ha! He really IS Inex.
From illogical arguments that are easily disproved...to declarations of fact that he cannot support...right down to the emotional outbursts when he gets backed into a corner.
@ over 1 year ago
Atlanta, GA 30349, USA
It's fücking hilarious.
Whats hilarious is that you actually think youve ever backed me into a corner. That, is hilarious.
That's so funny, Inex!
Inex? Where? Did he delete his post?
Union City, GA 30291, USA
I don't see where he posted. I wonder if Doc is drunk again. Seeing things. LOL
I don't think she is. ROFLMAOAYSPRIWTHHAP
Conley, GA 30288, USA
She must be. Inex hasnt posted in years. That I know of.
Unless you're inex as well as your other personalities.
I can see it.
have you ever said anything factually accurate?
Atlanta, GA 30316, USA
"I will no longer lower myself to your mud throwing antics. It's silly, childish, immature and unnecessary. That behaviors stifles open honest dialogue."
"I'd rather be confused with Inex than you. At least Inex didn't facilitate the sex abuse of his own children."
-PLC (his very next comment on this thread)
Not years? I could be wrong. I dont have a fascination on when and how often people post here. It doesnt really matter to me.
My VERY NEXT COMMENT! (disregard the 4 month period in between.)
Don't sweat the time frame.
Nobody expects your comments to have any validity anymore.
I told you yourself that I've given up on trying to have any form of civil conversation. Angry idiots like you make it impossible. I will treat everyone the way they treat me. If you want respect, give respect.
Yes. Your VERY NEXT comment.
Mine was an accurate statement.
Yes. I am correct.
You abandoned this thread originally because you were publicly humiliated.
You claimed to be taking the moral high road.
...yet you return...not to engage in the discussion that you were proven wrong on...
...but to engage in the very behavior that you claimed drove you away in the first place.
Absolutely. Dont think youre the only one who can play in the gutter. And I hope Doc doesn't think that either. I've seen her ugly kids. I can play.
Decent conversations are dead here. All thats left is insult fests. Which can be amusing. Considering you're just some dude from georgia who is as insignificant as they come, this is fun.
What insults do you have? Calling me a retard? Thats as good as it gets? If it is, you lost before you started. Maybe if you had done something usefull in life, you wouldnt need these chats to feel like somebody.
Do you see the difference in our insults? You call me a retard. Thats stupid. I call you insignificant. Thats TRUE! I call doc a bad mother. Thats TRUE! I call DP stupid. Thats TRUE! I call adams wife fat and ugly. Thats
####ing absolutely TRUE!
The funny thing is...I no longer have to get creative to humiliate you.
You're capable of doing that all by yourself.
What's so funny it's that you have no comeback.
I insult your comments and statements directly, point out their flaws, and tell you how fücking stupid you are for thinking them.
Because I'm correct...you have no comeback.
You cannot challenge my words directly.
The best your weak mind can attempt is that I'm from Georgia.
That is not so much an insult as a statement of geographical fact. it only you look more stupid
Your other futile attempts at insult to the guy who just verbally castrated you is to say that I'm...insignificant.
Comebacks to what? You have to offer something to comeback to!
It must really infuriate you that I never joined your Facebook group...so you can lash out childishly in personal attacks like you do against other users that you can't beat in actual debate.
The funniest thing is that if I had joined, it'd only be worse for you.
you havent won anything and you are insignificant. Sooooo what your point?
What? Facebook page? It wasnt my facebook page. Its AMIs.
I live an amazingly successful life. I've got it made.
What the #### does the facebook page have to do with this? Why are you so desperately reaching for something?
youre from georgia. thats bad enough.
EVERYONE can live an amazingly successful life these days. Thanks to the internet. What would you like to be today?
You like to keep it nice and vague. that way you can't be questioned on the minutia that you would be expected to know.
This is the internets! Where everyone can be rich and successful! A gorgeous wife. Great kids. A mansion. Maybe a vette.
You're reaching the point where I no longer have to ridicule you.
Your very existence is a joke.
Live in a great neighborhood. Lots of minorities so you dont seem like a bigot. Lots of parties so you can appear popular. Then off to the gym for you 4 hr cardio.
but everything else is true
Run a million dollar successful business. All while constantly winning conversations of VM!
A man of men!
my family jokes that it's a mansion...
...but I think it's just home.
Not a Vette. A PORCHE of course!
You coulda gone with the Vette. this is the INTERNETS! Where everything is possible!
I'm successful professionally and personally.
I am living the American dream. I've got most of what I've ever wanted.
...and I'm not even 40 yet
Ain't life great?!
A vette AND a porsche
Of course you are! This is the INTERNETS!
That's just it.
I could make up any number of false realities...because it doesn't fücking matter.
It's completely irrelevant to our discussions, you fücking halfwit.
On the internet everyone is awesome!
Irrelevant? Honesty is irrelevant to you? I can see you thinking that.
It has no bearing on what we're talking about.
You can say whatever the fück you want about my life outside of this forum...and I don't care.
it just makes you look like an imbecile who cannot defend his comments
Comments that have been defended OVER and OVER again. Dont blame me if you're too stupid to see that.
I call you stupid because of the comments you make that I can prove wrong.
You have no rebuttal...so you say I'm insignificant...based off of nothing.
You do it out of habit.
It's an involuntary reflex you've developed when you're getting your åss pummeled.
well, if you were honest about yourself, we would be able see your perspective a little bit better.
How quickly you resort to gay sex references.
And you allegedly have a gay 13 year old son. LMAO!
I have no problem with homosexuality.
I use it against you because I know how hot and bothered it makes you.
I have lots of gay friends.
If my son were gay...I wouldn't be in any way disappointed in him.
My love is unconditional.
That's just it.
What you think are insults...really aren't.
I'm secure enough in myself that I don't get offended.
You aren't significant enough to bother me.
The victor doesn't care what the loser says about them.
It's the reason there are no good racial slurs for white people.
I have conquered you.
LOL! I'm glad you think that. Hopefully that'll get you through the day. I have a real life and I dont seek victories in places that dont matter. I actually feel bad for you. All jokes aside.
It seems like this is all you got
Everyone else has had extended absences from VM. Everyone but you. You have been the steady poster for years and years. I have to wonder why. If you ever need to talk, email me. My email is my name @gmail.
No jokes, no insults. Serious business.
Don't you people have work to do??? The market is tanking so we need to get our collective asses in gear! Make something or buy something or create some jobs, guys.
I'm creating wealth as fast as I can.
(Corporation X is actually acquiring another company next week.)
I'm retired and do side work counseling. Not a real job. But I do appreciate your hard work. Your taxes are really helpful.
@PLC - I've taken multiple breaks fron VM.
You should recall my absence when you were making a fool of yourself in the "Smoke is Gay" saga you perpetuated.
The fact that you accused me of being a spoofer upon my return because?
Have you ever made a factually accurate comment?
I'm in my prime earning years.
I've actually pulled most of my investments fron the stock market in favor of real estate.
Let it burn.
I'll pick up some cheap buys when the smoke settles.
Of course you have!
I'm pretty sure I commented on it a couple of months ago.
Decatur, GA 30034, USA
Don't you ever get tired of being made to look like a dïck?
I love the internets! It's great!
on the bright side...you wear that foreskin beard very well
Panthersville, GA, USA
for all the accusations about people projecting and accusing anyone who claims to have a modicum of success being a liar...
...one has to wonder about your status
Gresham Park, GA, USA
my status? My life aint one that people like you make up to make themselves look like something they aint.
I suspected not.
That explains a lot of your bitterness and projection about other people's significance.
Tucker, GA, USA
Still completely irrelevant to your ridiculous comments and refusal to support your position.
Don't worry...I won't use your shït life in ad hominem attacks against you.
Tucker, GA 30084, USA
I only call you out when you're being a retard on this forum.
P.S. thanks for the unintended compliment
You think my actual life is fictitious because of how unbelievably good it is.
Stone Mountain, GA 30083, USA
It's ad hominem today? Got it. LMAO!
Everybody on the internet has an unbelievably good life. And is unbelievably good looking. Its the ####ing internet. Anything is possible.
I have a #### life? LOL! I guess. No mansion, real or fake. No vette. real or fake. Just a worthwhile career of serving my great country followed by service to those in need in my community. A real impact.
It's simple, but it's 100% real.
Don't you wish you could say the same?
I meet people like you all the time. The "my only regret is not having served" bunch. Hilarious.
I can only imagine how many times you'll say that in your life.
I don't regret not having served one bit.
My college roommate was a Marine reservist.
My best friend is lifelong Army.
I have a cousin that's a Ranger.
Two nephews...one Army...and Marines.
I don't envy any of them for one second.
I've voiced that very opinion to them each.
If the military works for them...then congratulations.
It never had any appeal to me.
My only regret is not having served?
If you're talking about serving shots of tequila out of the hot bartenders belly button...then maybe.
If you're talking about military service...I'll pass.
I floated the idea of ROTC to my folks when I was in high school. I thought my dad was going to blow a fúcking gasket. He told me the military only works for those who need structure and conformity and who are ok with unquestioning fealty.
Lakeland, MN, USA
I was offended at the time as I thought they would be pleased I would be interested in serving. But I have to say I am glad now he steered me clear of that. I would have been a terrible soldier.
Anyway chemistry proved to be amazing and research was fun and rewarding. Couldn't believe I got paid to do it sometimes.
Point being, we each have our own path. Not everyone is a soldier.