Who should Elizabeth Warren pick as a running mate? Anyone but Hillary.
@ over 2 years ago
Lakeland, MN, USA
Posted after the midterm elections. Nice crystal ball they have there.
@ over 2 years ago
@ over 2 years ago
Lakewood, OH, USA
Don't worry folks the male Caucasian will make a big comeback soon and this will all seem like a bad dream
and in a thousand years Obama will still be known as the last black president
Dream on, pinky.
Bama ruined it for Africans in this country with his deceitful ways.People will associate dark skin with lies
lawlessness and drug use too.Felons are not allowed to be president.Yeah I know he didn't get caught so he's not a criminal right
So, you would support Warren then? Last I checked her skin is white.
no cuz she's a liar too
Strongsville, OH, USA
How can that be? She's a nice white lady. First one to drop the f bomb on Jon Stewart, to my knowledge. Jon got totally aroused too.
She's too far to the left...radical thinking builds a cult following but doesn't win elections.
I am part Cherokee as well though (1/16) so I'm down with who she claims to be.
@ over 2 years ago
Villa Park, IL, USA
Team "Anyone but Hillary" doesn't really have much of a bench to select from.
@ over 2 years ago
Yorkville, New York, NY
ami if you view Warren as a radical thinker, I agree only to the extent that she is truly passionate about busting up the rigged economic system. We need a radical to help change that thinking.
I agree Drew, if you reject Hillary as veep who looks good on that side of the aisle?
I like Andrew Cuomo but he doesn't seem ready to assert himself nationally yet.
@ over 2 years ago
Pinky, look into the concept of "primacy and recency". Another thing. You won't be here in a thousand years.
@ over 2 years ago
Cerritos, CA, USA
We have no clue how the majority will see Obama in 20 years.
I'd vote for Warren, but the powers that be wrong let her win.
Why do you think that, Undr? She sure has a pair. I'd love to see her go toe to toe with Governor Fat Fatty. Sadly, I don't think it's in the cards for him at this point.
If this next election is Bush v. Clinton, I am going to pull my hair out in frustration. And move to Panama.
didn't she take advantage of her miniscule native American heritage?
to get what?
Wasn't she a republican?
srorriM & ekomS
@ over 2 years ago
to get something someone else needed and or deserved I guess it's not that complicated
a choice between two deceptive twàts
Who would have have Hillary as their VP? Someone with a death wish? How many people associated with the Clintons have turned up dead? Whether you believe they had anything to do with the deaths, or not it's just plain eerie.
@ over 2 years ago
Johnson City, NY, USA
How many have turned up dead?
Charles Ruff, Tony Moser, Vince Foster, John Millis, James McDougal, Ron Miller, Sandy Hume, Daniel Dutko, JFK Jr, Mary Mahoney, Admiral Jeremy Boorda, William Colby, Maj Gen William Roberts, Col William Densberger, etc, etc. Who had this many
associates with "special" information/dirt on them just turning up dead?
Not on the list that I know of, but maybe you know something I don't.
Of course, let's dig up some long dead skeleton shít from Bill Clinton's running days! I bet that makes perfect sense to a dumb, tired hack like you Angelius.
Stir the pot with things that sound serious-like! Scare folks with half truths! Throw in some biblical diatribe and we'll be all set. Come on let's have it, dumbàss.
Doc, Warren is pretty darn far to the left on most if not all issues . ..not electable imo
the field is cleared, any candidates will be there for the illusion of competition.
@ over 2 years ago
Never say never ami. Warren is a firebrand. She could play very well now. With Hillary as her initial opponent she could mop the floor. She could make mincemeat out of the tired old white male republican leadership.
I like Franken, Skäl. Just not sure he is ready for that.
He's good enough, smart enough, and people like him.
Did she say Franken? Al Franken? Dr Evil? why why why why! I mean I do appreciate that he is a male Caucasian but there are better choices
why not clinton-bush or bush-clinton? they are both on the same side anyway.
President Not Sure
@ over 2 years ago
Plantation Palms, Land O' Lakes, FL 34639
Whoever the GOP puts up there HE's going to be a stuffy old fart as usual without a chance in hell
dunno about that Pink.
nailed it pink. I'm thinking McCain might want another go. Now that Mittens has cleared the way and all. That was such a loss for you guys on the right, too, wasn't it?
Hey how about Christie? Might be worth another look. What percent of the country is obese? Man he'd have the fat vote locked up. I'd say he also has the Mafioso vote but those two groups are mutual.
(in one direction anyway...not sure all fat people are mafia)
Obama hasn't been a total loss, it's been entertaining and eye-opening to say the least very much like letting a kid touch the stove
Aurora, OH, USA
Whoever promises to fix these roads gets my vote but they will be too busy cleaning up the mess of the previous administration and what a mess it is
Very surprised Obama hasn't gotten into trouble with women being black and all which kind of makes me think he's a homosexual
Definitely a metrosexual and have you seen the way he traverses stairs? Totally gay
Yes but he can't be Warren's running mate pink, so your points (if we can call them that) are moot.
God damn America
Streetsboro, OH, USA
Obama is a gay. Good collection of evidence here: http://hillbuzz.org/is-barack-obama-gay
Binghamton, NY, USA
So what if he's gay as Liberace? He still can't be anyone's running mate.
what if has surgery and runs again as Barackina?
I never heard Barry had gender identity issues!
If we get one more source to confirm, we can get this story on Fox News!!! Then Angelius can repeat it here ad nauseam.
Jeb Bush will be the next and possibly last "president" of the United States
Don't know about that but he could be the first of many more male Caucasians to come
Viva la Caucasia!!
But I think the Democrats have 4 more years
I don't think Warren can win not at the top of the tix...now if Hillary would get out of the way this race might get interesting
@ over 2 years ago
I think it's too early to draw such a conclusion Silver. If Clinton is out there is a huge vacuum on the left.
The right is already full of stupid so no vacuum there, but it's not the best way to fill the void.
I just don't see the center choosing "new" again
I hope and pray warren is on the ticket!
@ over 2 years ago
Oh, the ignorance?
Southwood Riviera, Torrance, CA 90505
With some of Warren's populist positions, you may regret that wish plc
she's no more a threat to win an election than Ron Paul ever was
Addison, IL, USA
You didn't do it right, water. But I'm not surprised.
But she does say all the right things to make progressives all tingly
I really doubt Ill ever get to regret it. They all have some populist positions. It doesnt erase the extreme. Time will tell.
What are these populist positions?
evil will vote for anyone with a d on front of their name whether it's Hillary or not.
I always do it right, baby!
That's not what she said!
@PLC - standing up against big money in Washington has been her biggest position, i.e. her role with CFPB.
@PLC - what extremist positions make you not concerned?
@AMI - Hillary has her own problems right now. There aren't many other Dems in waiting. Her outlook is much brighter than Paul's ever was for that reason.
Schaumburg, IL, USA
ALL extremists positions bother me. Left, like warren and right, like perry.
going against business is not as populist as you think.
Which extremist positions, plc?
Going against business that rip off consumers is, however, quite popular.
@ami - and??????
Fights big business while making sweet sweet love to big education
and big businesses that she likes of course, those are ok
maybe Santorum can attack her on big education
is Santorum running?
he might be, what does that matter...
it doesn't, which is exactly what I could say about your comment. ..it doesn't matter
She is obviously an elderly woman stricken with Alzheimer's but it feels so good to vote for the first female president so she is in there as far as the feel good crowd is concerned
seems you cons all hate higher ed...if she runs and is attacked for being 'big ed' the Santorum clip from 12 will be ran linking the R's being anti-intelligence...but yeah go ahead and think you're onto something
Everyone is in someone's pocket, she's no Jesus
do you have a point
@ami - Which big businesses were those exactly?
World class academic institutions in her home state donated to her. whoop-dee-do.
Did you figure out why she's unelectable yet?
higher education is big business....huge business
oh and Google
and Move On and Emily's list. ...she's loved by far left everything because she is far left...far left is just as bad for votes as far right is
oh I think she is left of most voters...but if you think 'big ed' is what she should be attacked on you're as out of step as Santorum...that is not going to be an issue for her
she'll do well in liberal heavy states, personally I'd vote for her over Clinton. ..Warren is more honest and less evil....but she falls too far to the left for me to support her on most things
All of those were individual donations, FYI.
All I'm hearing from you is who donated to her...and nothing about why she's unelectable.
Do you have anything?
I'll say it again, just for you, she's too liberal and a progressive idealist. She's too far left of 90% of the voters in this country.
On what issues ami? You do know she was a republican, don't you?
On pretty much all of them, she's full bore progressive now
Really? come on man
Interesting article...near the end it mentions some broader appeal: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/01/29/us/politics/hillary-clinton-vs-elizabeth-warren-could-be-a-dream-match-for-republicans.html?referrer=&_r=0
Of course the Rs wasn't Warren to run just to weaken Hillary. I get that, but I'd love to watch that strategy backfire on them when they pick their usual dimwit old white guy and Warren spanks him hard.
Yes, really ami.
Good. Then it should be easy.
The reason I'm pushing you is because that characterization is repeated ad nauseam but most people I've run into can't actually say what makes her so far left.
What do you believe is a position held by many far left individuals?
now you're squirming.
I don't squirm
Just a wee bit.
not even a smidgen
Gotta agree with Warren on her criticism of Holder for basically not going after any of the financial crimes.. Too big to jail, wtf is that.
Her viral speech annoyed me when she pretended that the factory owner somehow didn't pay for the roads as well (he undoubtedly paid a higher percentage as well, since we do have a progressive income tax)
here is where ontheissues.org placed her on the spectrum
Good for ontheissues.
What makes ami think she fits that far left?
just a couple so you can sleep tonight
1. Abortion, any further left and she'd be running an abortion mill out of her house.
2. Government enforced pay equality.
"Restricting second ammendment" feels pretty lefty too me. At least mentions this on "on the issues"
A pro choice democrat that thinks women should be paid the same as a man for the same job?
That's your example of what makes her far left?
Getting back to what silverfox was saying, if the attack is going to be that she's pro education and equal pay for women doing the same job, you got your work cut out fer ya.
And there's not much difference between Warren and Clinton's stances on either gun control or abortion...
She's a radical! Run for your lives!
Hell AMI, if you go to the Emily's list website, Hillary is everywhere.
Too bad warren is against legalization.
Radical leftists have no business being against legalization.
Goes against the assigned narrative.
so staunch pro abortion, anti capitalism, pro big government, anti 2nd amendment, pro dream act, anti religious freedom, pro tax and spend, doesn't make one a far left liberal these day? Oh how times have changed!
nice job you found one of the very few topics she takes a centrist stand on....legalized medical Marijuana but no outright legalization....I wonder if she's Ok with states legalizing within their own borders. ...if not, it would only confirm her
desire for an even more powerful and imposing federal government
she's no centrist, she's a populist leaning far left liberal. ..just like you three. ..I understand why she has your support
Just don't make the mistake of thinking that you represent the poltical center of this country
"anti-religious freedom", "pro-abortion"...not too brain washed are we? lol
It's cute how these incendiary terms get snuck in for the extra jab. Still. Why don't you folks get the fúck over yourselves? You are not DC operatives for crying out loud. No one is fooled by the little word games.
Brain washed? She opposes religious freedom. She's a staunch supporter of abortion. How does that make me brain washed?
If you want to continue to play, then let's hear how Warren would like to take away your right to freely practice your religion.
however you liberals/progressives decide to brand yourselves, you're still far left. pro abortion/pro choice is left no matter how you label it. No matter how hard you try to move the 50 yard line.
she's more left leaning than the average Scandinavian....really, she is. ...she is far left. ..any further and she'll far over the wall and land in the Tea Party
incendiary jabs like. ..I don't know. . brain washed???
Supporting abortion rights has nothing to do with wanting people to have them. Just like supporting your right to join the KKK had nothing to do with support of the KKK itself. You know this. So yes, "pro-abortion" is a little word game that
word game! LMMFAO!
has at its heart a baseless attempt to dirty up your opponent's viewpoint. It's a cheap shot that appeals to weak minded individuals who prefer to feel righteous, not to have to think about it.
As you try to steer the conversation away from the facts that contradict your notion that warren is somehow, centrist and not far left with silly complaints of word games and brain washing.
Yes, obviously you prefer to feel informed, not be informed. I get it. That's exactly the strategy that was the basis for Fox News. Its founder said people want to feel informed, not be informed.
That strategy has been quite successful for Fox. I credit then and the granddaddy of them all, Karl Rove, for the stupid word game mentality from which you so clearly suffer.
Man you guys really swallowed that line of bull...hook line and sinker.
OMG! This is just getting worse. I listed 7 stances, you complain about 2. Not on substance but rather style. Ridiculous.
Blah blah FOX, blah blah Bush, Blah Blah Blah, Bankers, Blah Blah, green!
So let's hear how Warren wants to take away your right to practice your religion.
Hard to deny her far left leanings when you look at the facts.
Nor a style thing plc. If that's your position, defend it. Warren is anti-religious freedom how.
Your words. Back then up dummy
So I'll take that as you accepting the other 6 far left positions.
dummy? OMG. And we wonder why this place has gone to ####. Have a great day.
AMI, the left has tried to move the political 50 yard line further and further left to make their extreme views seem not so extreme and the right seem farther away from the center than ever.
plc has no support for such strong condemnations? That is completely shocking!!
Do you really want to start a war of insults? Thats so 2013!
Your failure to provide any rational basis for your positions absolutely makes you a dummy.
Here, just for you. http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Elizabeth_Warren.htm
Let me know when you're ready to talk like a grown up.
If baseless accusations inform your political positions, you are a dummy.
SMH! If the facts that make you wrong wrong wrong make me a dummy, so be it. That a liberal thinks the facts make one a dummy and brain washed is nothing new.
ms evil says shes not far left so she must not be. LOL!
Here's a left to right snapshot of Voter Map:
Smoke, Josh, Doc, Silver, Skål, jc, Racer, Rob, Arcadia, AMI, PNS, PLC, John Galt
Did I say that?
Did you use any facts for me to ridicule?
Drew would fall between me and PNS
Angelus between PLC and Galt
No and no. Lack of facts on your part = no rational basis for your assertion. So let's have the facts. And do not attribute false quotes to me. That's lying.
hey you put yourself in the middle
The Axis of Liberalism (Doc, Skål, Silver)
Yea that's so cute plc. So how about those facts? got anything?
I'm a libertarian leaning center right
You're populist leaning center left. ..my opposite
Got facts plc? Regarding Elizabeth Warren's anti-religious freedom stance?
So who else do the Democrats have that they like besides Hillary & Warren?
Rose Hill, New York, NY
Who I actually like better than both Clinton and Warren
i am a JIm Webb proponent
just think we need to run someone with a centrist feel
He would be tough to beat imo
and to be clear Warren does not have my support...unless she makes it through the primary...then well...
Webb and a viable female on the bottom of the tix...
I'm also curious about PLC's explanation for "anti-religious freedom"
I don't think he has one.
Are you just throwing scary buzzwords against the wall like spaghetti?
and Howard Schultz...because all that business acumen that R's constantly go on about in a candidate suddenly won't mean squat
Silver here is a list of women that he could select as a running mate
Elmhurst, IL, USA
AMI in your left to right list, where is the center?
Arcadia I suppose
Northlake, IL, USA
are all topics given equal weight in your list
I mighta placed rob a little farther left and josh at the head of the left. And me a little closer to the center.
Nice running away, plc you little bítch! bahahaha
yeah I would have plc further from galt than you do
Nah, your position is about right PLC.
plc cannot support any of his assertions with facts. Though I guess you feel informed, don't you? sure you do. And that's what's important, feeling like you probably know stuff. It's a license for outrage against anyone who doesn't agree.
The system is intact for all you other conservatards...now that you see how it's done! It's so easy!
Doc, I don't want to get into flame wars anymore. Regretfully Ive done it in the past and it totally detracts from a good conversation. I'm sorry you can't understand that. Have a great day.
nah skal his position on gun control moves him to the left not to mention his sane view on the Cliven Bundy debacle...he is right leaning centrist
but what about the rest of the con supporting cast...kzoo and donta?
My positions on gun control and the death penalty move me a little further left. IMO.
Thanks for describing my view on the Bundy debacle as sane.
Kzoo would be just to the left of Galt, Dontai is on another planet
Hey, is there a way to determine someone's "leftness" or "rightness"? No? Then how is it useful to have such a discussion? No one uses the same criteria.
Southeast Torrance, Torrance, CA
To the point; that "50 yard line" is also being moved to the left or right depending on who you ask.
Because it's fun, that's why
PLC, if that website is where you get your information for candidates, might I recommend more diverse sources? Your complaints seem to come directly from that site.
above I meant a scientific way to determine leaning.
PLC, I'm also interested in how she is opposed to religious freedom. I can't imagine any public figure admitting anything like that.
Shall we take them one at a time?
Oh. AMi. I'm glad you left me out of that list. I think that's where I belong. Though I have been accused of being the biggest liberal on this app...by "Josh".
That is not my only source. Should I link the 2 dozen or so sources I looked at? That would be a little silly. That one does have it all in one basket though.
So. One at a time or do you agree with the other 6 and just want to discuss this one? Because if thats the case, the other 6 kind of place her on the far left by themselves.
U Water I left you out on purpose
pro-choice - not a far left position
anti capitalism - citation needed. generic "scary liberal" buzz-phrase. Regulated capitalism is not anti-capitalism
pro big government - generic "scary liberal" buzz-phrase. Regulation isn't always scary, nor bad.
anti 2nd amendment - further left than some dems.
pro dream act - not a far left position
anti religious freedom - citation still needed
pro tax and spend - generic "scary liberal" buzz-phrase
word game = buzz phrase. LMAO
Evil and Skal say shes not far left so she must not be. No citation needed. Just believe as you and we're ok. LOL! I have to laugh. Sorry.
What did Warren mean in this clip? http://youtu.be/MNKqOE7bJq8
Buzz Phrases! Word games! Nothing to see there! She centrist! Skal and Doc said so! It must be true!
Even Bill agrees. http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/12/16/oreilly-president-elizabeth-warren-would-make-obama-look-reagan
I never said she was centrist. But she's not as far left as she is painted.
You, on the other hand, said she was anti-religious freedom.
PLC said it, so it must be true!
I think that's how it goes, right?
Bill-O is a bastion of truth-telling. Uhhuh.
You finally got it! That wasn't that hard.
How does she feel about tax payer funded abortions?
Simply "Pro-choice" isn't far left, things are more complicated than that. To me a radical position would be absolutely no restrictions on abortion, which some feminists have argued for. Not sure of what Warren's specific stances are there
Also perhaps it helps to think of politicians we might say who are further left than Warren. How many are there and who would they be?
Bernie Sanders perhaps?
She supports late term abortion.
Yeah I guess him especially since he readily calls himself socialist, any more we can think of?
Being totally comfortable with elective abortion after 20 weeks means you're in the minority in terms of general American views on the topic.
In that scatterplot, Warren shows up right in the middle of the pack, just to the left of Stabenow.
Provided that this plot has any external validity, of course
middle of the pack on the far left...what this plot does a great job of illustrating is just how far to the extremes both parties have become
But if you make the X-axis range shorter and they don't look too far apart...
@Drew and PLC - To my knowledge, she hasn't come out and said she supports elective abortion after 20 weeks. The clip where she is attributed as supporting late-term abortion simply comments on Republicans pushing
restrictions on any abortions after 20 weeks (some with no exceptions). Such a restriction would also eliminate medically indicated reasons as well (i.e. for the health of the mother).
Some of the context at the time, see the lack of exceptions towards the end.
It's kinda dumb not to include the exceptions, not just from medical standpoint but politically you think they'd want the liberals to have to vote on whether to allow pure elective abortions after 20 weeks
That's what you think they'd want to force a vote on.
Btw what was your own position on gestational limits for *purely* elective, Skål? Also @ Doc
No later than 20. But so few happen after that week that it's hardly worth the effort put into that debate.
I strongly believe the better approach is to promote steps to reduce unplanned pregnancies
More data from the same project, in NEJM: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1400506?query=TOC&#t=articleMethods
The older I get the more pro life I become.
But where I could work with the left is in the area of prevention. Most unexpected pregnancies happen because the individuals involved are literally dumber than a box of rocks.
I've thought elective rights should be cut off when the fetus could survive outside the womb. But really that's not possible legally at least because it's a moving target medically.
Condoms are useless. There has to be incentives to provide better access to birth control.
The best method is to keep your genitals to yourself until the right time. I don't judge people who can't though, I couldn't.
So the 20 week figure seems as reasonable as any. I realize the late term abortion thing makes folks squeamish. But medically necessary abortion should not be prohibited at any point.
Abortions are rarely medically necessary
Skäl, the abortion rate has been declining for a long time, has it not?
Any reasonable person knows specific exceptions should be left to the decision of the mother. Otherwise, if mom and baby are healthy then that baby should have a chance at life
What if I decide my pregnancy is abnormal so I should get an abortion?
I think the judgement of a doctor should always be part of an "exception".
Abortion rates I don't think have been declining, unless it's just a tad. While there aren't many abortions after 20 weeks, there are a few. I think a ban on purely elective ones is fine.
Doc, yes I would even suggest that two opinions be necessary and none from a facility that would profit from the procedure
Stats on abortion
I think the fact that black women are almost 4 times more likely to get an abortion is the stat that bothers me the most
that would NOT profit
Abortion rates were lied about for Roe v Wade in order to make it seem like many more were illegally happening than there actually were, one of the docs admitted that
Seems like a hands up, don't shoot situation where they just lie about stuff in order to get some social change.
That's why the CHOICE study in STL was so great, AMI.
The problem is that the same people in govt who want fewer abortions also view LARC as abortion (based on bad science), reducing access.
Or like when Kinsey used prison inmates to generalize about American sexual habits in his Kinsey report.
Better link for trends, AMI
They have been decreasing.
Yep...among all demographics?
AMI, you're making me a centrist?
Wow, that kinda hurts. I'm not an anarchist, but I can see anarchy from my porch. I'm about as far from statist as I can get, without giving up on limited government.
et in Arcadia ego
@ over 2 years ago
Hopewell, PA, USA
and what about bhaven
Arbutus, MD, USA
Arcadia, centrist in that you are a pure libertarian which is a balance of ideology
didn't mean to offend :-)
bhaven is on the dot where Obama is. ..if Obama moves, he moves
where do sheep fall on the plot?
@ over 2 years ago
Winder, GA 30680, USA
sheep follow their shepherd
see how useful these labels are? sheesh.
Beverly Hills, CA, USA
Thanks for the link Skäl, good to get a link I know I can trust. Statistics like those are bound to be manipulated and skewed according to political goals.
Hudson, WI, USA
It's always good to base trust on a source solely on whether or not you agree with their assessments. You know you can trust this because it says what you want to hear or because of its ties to planned parenthood?
You must feel soooo informed. LOL
I challenge you to find a better source of statistics.
Hoffman Estates, IL, USA
I trust the link because Skäl posted it and I don't believe he would knowingly post a link to a medical source that skews the statistics. Since he is a doctor he has the ability to judge on these issues.
plc whether or not I agree with the assessment is irrelevant. The statistics do speak for themselves.
Are you taking issue with the content of that link?
Skal, I don't put much faith in planned parenthood. But that's just me.
Doc, my issue is with blind allegiance.
In all fairness, evil, Oz is also a Dr...
Guttmacher happens to be the most reliable source for stats on the topic. It also happens to be a PP offshoot.
That's fine that you don't put much faith in PP.
Find a more accurate source then and I'll happily stop referencing Guttmacher.
How do you know it's accurate?
The paper where data on Figure 1 (the trendline) was taken from:
You may not have access to the full paper due to a paywall. I do. :)
Ok I was just looking for a thoughtful answer
I fully believe that abortions are on a downward slope
What's wrong with CDC #s. (They also say abortions are down)
In particular, the first paragraph of the methods section describes the survey well.
In general, it doesn't matter who is behind a study if the methods they use are sound.
CDC isn't a bad source either. However, they rely on voluntary reporting of data.
Further, in the latest CDC report, the CDC acknowledges that their numbers were consistently 70% of what Guttmacher found.
First paragraph, under limitations.
Even more so, the CDC references Guttmacher extensively (look at the references section)
Long story short, Guttmacher is the authority.
Guttmacher is actually cited by pro-life groups many times I think. It's a good source.
I thought this was an interesting article regardless but look how many times they cite Guttmacher http://www.frc.org/brochure/the-best-pro-life-arguments-for-secular-audiences
@ over 2 years ago
Fort Bragg, NC, USA
Anyone heard from Pink? http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ohio-serial-pooper-caught-camera-defecating-car-article-1.2146616
The Mad Pooper?
How does Warren compare to John Edwards (obviously before he went down in flames)?
Midtown, New York, NY
he has better hair, although the cut is similar
plc I never have blind faith in anything. I stated actual reasons for putting faith in the reference. Perhaps you didn't read those.
I don't believe you have an understanding of how to ascertain whether such statistics are skewed or manipulated anyway. So, whom would you ask if you wanted such a reference? How about a medical researcher?