26e82c69bac3abe48cfce8aae262fda8

How does VM think about the militarization of local police? I feel like there's a great deal of agreement on this issue actually.

The Drew @ about 3 years ago

Comments (109)

Ff0bc45e0c6ab8165b04eb40e5b1acf7

It tends to promote abuse of force over increased security. I always thought that the National Guard was responsible for enforcing a martial law type situation when and where needed.

AMI @ about 3 years ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

A39f5aef0adb6cea421f333e4cc9b583

maybe here but across america police are given the latitude to go much further than they do now.

[412035] @ about 3 years ago

Martinsburg, WV 25403, United States

811f304d1edba24fb92ebcd4eeb3d8a8

There's a wide gap between martial law and routine patrol. The NG can't be relied upon to fill all of the gaps. Equip local Police to handle the current threats.

Taco Bowl @ about 3 years ago

Brooklyn, NY 11231, United States

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

but why would a city of 50k need apc's, camp, black ops equip, etc..? . give the police the equipment they tend to move towards using it & living the hype. . most places in US are safe, not wanton abandon & crime going on. .

H2O @ about 3 years ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

Chicago, DC, NYC, LA. all examples of NP with it,, but Bimmington NY, Erie Pa, Morgantown WV, ????? are over kill. .

H2O @ about 3 years ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

811f304d1edba24fb92ebcd4eeb3d8a8

Police have to be ready to face today's criminals, which are not worried about appearing too militarized. Many situations are better to have and not need than need and not have.

Taco Bowl @ about 3 years ago

Brooklyn, NY 11231, United States

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

then use them appropriately.. . Unfortunately I believe they are often misused and abused. . You cannot tell me you need swat for a traffic stop or an ounce of mj.

H2O @ about 3 years ago

Salem, VA, USA

26e82c69bac3abe48cfce8aae262fda8

That SWATting prank thing is scary as fck.

The Drew @ about 3 years ago

New York, NY 10001, USA

Ff0bc45e0c6ab8165b04eb40e5b1acf7

I have seen no proof that people are more dangerous than they were 30 years ago

AMI @ about 3 years ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

26e82c69bac3abe48cfce8aae262fda8

I feel like what happens is you got some of these guys with maturity levels of 12 year olds that see this stuff as the expensive GI Joe playset that they could never have as kids.

The Drew @ about 3 years ago

New York, NY 10001, USA

93d38743227fa530172de383530e8ad5

cops are out of control, we live in a police state

Ai @ about 3 years ago

Chattanooga, TN 37421, USA

811f304d1edba24fb92ebcd4eeb3d8a8

I don't believe SWAT is necessary for a traffic stop either. The ounce of MJ? Depends on many other factors.People may not be more dangerous but criminal organizations have become more organized, thus more dangerous.

Taco Bowl @ about 3 years ago

Brooklyn, NY 11231, United States

811f304d1edba24fb92ebcd4eeb3d8a8

Drew, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Police with maturity levels of 12 year olds? Is that something you've seen in NYC?

Taco Bowl @ about 3 years ago

Brooklyn, NY 11231, United States

A39f5aef0adb6cea421f333e4cc9b583

military spending is sky high and military surplus provides extra equipment and vehicles to local law enforcement for no cost under several programs.

[412035] @ about 3 years ago

Martinsburg, WV 25403, United States

A39f5aef0adb6cea421f333e4cc9b583

this is the militarization as far as equipment goes, the carte blanche mentality creates the actual ability to use it.

[412035] @ about 3 years ago

Martinsburg, WV 25403, United States

26e82c69bac3abe48cfce8aae262fda8

No, I'm talking about those photos of policeman from tiny, tiny towns grinning with their new surplus military vehicles.

The Drew @ about 3 years ago

New York, NY 10001, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

Drew,,, I think most of this started with the post 9/11 paranoia. Police departments started asking for, and getting, equipment that was never previously considered. As long as it was remotely associated with the threat of terrorism, they got it all.

jc @ about 3 years ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

4a315ca5f80d2903bee925615a1deb5a

as long as it isn't costing the local police and sheriff depts I am for the most part for it, but there are doomsday scenarios concerning abuse of power that should be guarded against

Silverfox @ about 3 years ago

4a315ca5f80d2903bee925615a1deb5a

although I would think the small/local guvmint cons would be more willing to accept this

Silverfox @ about 3 years ago

75c0efaa27986c943c72b78a0fa61431

We sure have come a long way from SERVE and PROTECT. There's a reason the military and police are separate. If we have all kinds of extra military equipment, why not give it to the Palestinians?

srorriM & ekomS @ about 3 years ago

Ann Arbor, MI 48103, United States

064e5e2fd9986c3b958490f64c7c1d76

What is the agreement referred to in the OP? Is it that the militarization of police is necessary? Cause if so, then I agree. We need to take every measure possible to make sure the people who put their lives on the line for us every day are safe.

rob @ about 3 years ago

Palo Alto, CA 94303, USA

26e82c69bac3abe48cfce8aae262fda8

I dunno... The footage I saw of the police in Ferguson tossing tear gas at news crews and tearing down their equipment... Not so sure about that. I think WV is correct about the attitude thing.

The Drew @ about 3 years ago

Sayville, NY, USA

064e5e2fd9986c3b958490f64c7c1d76

They were probably interfering with police operations and likely given ample time to cease their behavior before the police resorted to the tactics necessary to disperse the interference.

rob @ about 3 years ago

The Woods, San Jose, CA 95136

6c48fb73634fa41fe7915a7faf370ee7

Give that man a cigar! There's a good chance that the police did not want to make public the bad behavior of such a small percentage of the community

Mr. Pink @ about 3 years ago

Brunswick, OH, USA

93d38743227fa530172de383530e8ad5

If the police wanted to prove that the protest was violent, wouldn't they want it on film? seems they were covering their tracks

Ai @ about 3 years ago

Chattanooga, TN 37421, USA

93d38743227fa530172de383530e8ad5

I believe the militarization of police is in response to the heat number of gun sales. They're preparing for war, which makes me wonder what kind of bs will come about that brings this civil war to a head

Ai @ about 3 years ago

Chattanooga, TN 37421, USA

93d38743227fa530172de383530e8ad5

heat=large, proofreading is against my religion

Ai @ about 3 years ago

Chattanooga, TN 37421, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

We just had an "armed standoff" situation here. One old drunk waving an empty shotgun. The police response looked like they were preparing to take a city in Afghanistan. If they have, they'll use it.

jc @ about 3 years ago

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

Silver,,, The minimal cost to local agencies is a poor arguement. We paid a premium price for that stuff. And my guess is that it only became "surplus" because there was more scheduled for delivery.

jc @ about 3 years ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

Ff0bc45e0c6ab8165b04eb40e5b1acf7

Nice to agree with you jc

AMI @ about 3 years ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

4a315ca5f80d2903bee925615a1deb5a

I'm with you jc but the ordering of them ain't stopping...so why get hit twice

Silverfox @ about 3 years ago

064e5e2fd9986c3b958490f64c7c1d76

The drunk guy "waving" a shotgun could have been gesturing for possible cohorts to move in on what would essentially be sitting ducks of the police response to him. Top that with the fact that no one knows his shotgun is empty until after the fact.

rob @ about 3 years ago

The Woods, San Jose, CA 95136

064e5e2fd9986c3b958490f64c7c1d76

their response was every bit necessary in order to ensure their own safety in responding to a situation with the potential for grave danger.

rob @ about 3 years ago

The Woods, San Jose, CA 95136

4f2296c5af7fa46de0b9954997a11412

Rob is right. Officer safety is the most important thing! ;-)

Repeal the "Patriot" Act!™ @ about 3 years ago

Bush, LA 70431, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

repeal!???

H2O @ about 3 years ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

4a315ca5f80d2903bee925615a1deb5a

drew what exactly do you mean by 'militarization'

Silverfox @ about 3 years ago

064e5e2fd9986c3b958490f64c7c1d76

Did I just occasion an RPA appearance??

rob @ about 3 years ago

The Woods, San Jose, CA 95136

26e82c69bac3abe48cfce8aae262fda8

Silver, mostly the same as what comes up if you Google "Militarization of Police"

The Drew @ about 3 years ago

Sayville, NY, USA

4a315ca5f80d2903bee925615a1deb5a

all I saw was a lot of stuff about Ferguson, so what is actually meant by it

Silverfox @ about 3 years ago

Little Rock, AR 72203, United States

26e82c69bac3abe48cfce8aae262fda8

Cato has a paper about it, was mostly about SWAT raids, which have gotten worse http://www.cato.org/publications/white-paper/overkill-rise-paramilitary-police-raids-america

The Drew @ about 3 years ago

Holbrook, NY, USA

26e82c69bac3abe48cfce8aae262fda8

This article also discusses a bit of the background, they also cite the same author in the Cato paper http://www.thewire.com/national/2014/08/the-evolution-of-police-militarization-in-ferguson-and-beyond/376107/

The Drew @ about 3 years ago

Holbrook, NY, USA

26e82c69bac3abe48cfce8aae262fda8

Here's another reprint of a 2006 article http://www.popularmechanics.com/_mobile/technology/military/paramilitary-police-force-ferguson?click=main_sr

The Drew @ about 3 years ago

Holbrook, NY, USA

4a315ca5f80d2903bee925615a1deb5a

okie doke...a few problems with both links...first 15yrs ago and further back if you wanted to learn how to clear a house or room you would see how SWAT teams did it...so we in the military have trained on this using...

Silverfox @ about 3 years ago

4a315ca5f80d2903bee925615a1deb5a

tactics borrowed from police, not the other way around...crowd control tactics again have always been first and foremost a policing issue even within the military, so cops have been doing crowd control and using teargas and less than lethal tactics

Silverfox @ about 3 years ago

4a315ca5f80d2903bee925615a1deb5a

much more than we typically do...as far as weponry goes police have had high powered rifles for a lot longer than the last 25 or so years...now they have MRAP's is this the one thing that makes them militarized?...seems so

Silverfox @ about 3 years ago

26e82c69bac3abe48cfce8aae262fda8

Perhaps there are issues with the terminology as this guy points out. http://gawker.com/dont-call-the-police-militarized-the-military-is-bet-1621523647

The Drew @ about 3 years ago

Holbrook, NY, USA

26e82c69bac3abe48cfce8aae262fda8

I think the point behind the articles is that there had been a substantial increase in the number of SWAT raids, and it's being inappropriately used for a lot of things.

The Drew @ about 3 years ago

Rose Hill, New York, NY

A65883f45a009bb03df1abdb3586e698

Drew http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/08/15/us/surplus-military-equipment-map.html?_r=0

John Galt...  Bernie Is A Socialist @ about 3 years ago

North Olmsted, OH, USA

B5542118c2d0317fb8dbad550049edb7

If your tool looks like an army, the solution to your problems starts looking like a war. The loss of civil rights due to the "War on Drugs", like no knock raids, and the lure of big money thru asset forfeiture, is driving most of this.

et in Arcadia ego @ about 3 years ago

Ruffs Dale, PA 15679, USA

26e82c69bac3abe48cfce8aae262fda8

I heard there's also some rule that if you get the equipment, you have to use it within a year or you lose it.

The Drew @ about 3 years ago

New York, NY 10017, USA

4a315ca5f80d2903bee925615a1deb5a

so now we can use 'assault weapons' in negative terms...do they have to use those w/i a year...the lines keep on shifting...so is it the assault weapons that make people play army or just the MRAP's...remember equipment doesn't kill people.

Silverfox @ about 3 years ago

4a315ca5f80d2903bee925615a1deb5a

people kill people...and the only thing that stops bad guys with assault weapons is good guys with assault weapons...you guys are funny

Silverfox @ about 3 years ago

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

what's the percentage of criminals in the U.S. that are known to use (used) assault weapons? . How many then used against law enforcement? . Does every squad car need an assault weapon? . .

H2O @ about 3 years ago

Fort Belvoir, VA, USA

26e82c69bac3abe48cfce8aae262fda8

Silver. What about the massive increase in # of SWAT raids we were talking about?

The Drew @ about 3 years ago

Rose Hill, New York, NY

441587fe232d918c3a4c8497d22aa156

imo this goes back to the LA thing with the crooks in body armor laughing at the cops with 9mm.

President Not Sure @ about 3 years ago

Plantation Palms, Land O' Lakes, FL 34639

98d7101629a5e7bcbaca8c6c5bd9decc

I remember that. made a good case at the time. is it still?

UndrWater @ about 3 years ago

Cerritos, CA 90703, USA

441587fe232d918c3a4c8497d22aa156

I don't know but I do know I would not go to parts of Ferguson or north STL without a gun.

President Not Sure @ about 3 years ago

Plantation Palms, Land O' Lakes, FL 34639

4a315ca5f80d2903bee925615a1deb5a

so we agree assault weapons exist...cool...drew is there an increase? isn't the right question...why and is the increase justified?...that's where opinions come in, what you see as overreach I may see as perfectly acceptable

Silverfox @ about 3 years ago

4a315ca5f80d2903bee925615a1deb5a

there is certain inherent risk to certain jobs...but leadership within that profession will mitigate that risk as much as they reasonably can...we can argue reasonable

Silverfox @ about 3 years ago

26e82c69bac3abe48cfce8aae262fda8

Yes, there's been a pretty sharp increase. http://time.com/2907307/aclu-swat-local-police/

The Drew @ about 3 years ago

Rose Hill, New York, NY

4a315ca5f80d2903bee925615a1deb5a

but justfiable

Silverfox @ about 3 years ago

Little Rock, AR , United States

26e82c69bac3abe48cfce8aae262fda8

Why do you say that? Isn't a lot of the increase due to drug raids?

The Drew @ about 3 years ago

Yorkville, New York, NY

4a315ca5f80d2903bee925615a1deb5a

why would that in any way change my statement

Silverfox @ about 3 years ago

B5542118c2d0317fb8dbad550049edb7

As cannibis laws are changed, police and sheriff's offices are increasing enforcement, it squeeze every last easy dollar out of the shrinking drug war windfall they've come to rely on for funding.

et in Arcadia ego @ about 3 years ago

Elkhart, IN 46516, USA

B5542118c2d0317fb8dbad550049edb7

Decriminalization is necessarily going to have to be the next wave of legislation.

et in Arcadia ego @ about 3 years ago

Elkhart, IN 46516, USA

B5542118c2d0317fb8dbad550049edb7

And PLC, if criminal organizations are such a well armed threat, where are all the bodies? The FBI Uniform Crime numbers show that violent crime is at an all time low. Including violence against officers, which has remained steady or dropped since

et in Arcadia ego @ about 3 years ago

Elkhart, IN 46516, USA

B5542118c2d0317fb8dbad550049edb7

the big spike in the nineties.

et in Arcadia ego @ about 3 years ago

Elkhart, IN 46516, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

the town of Royalton, MN (pop just over 1200) got a grenade launcher as part of their military surplus "endowment"... I wonder if they plan to use it!

Dr. Evil @ about 3 years ago

Lakeland, MN, USA

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

only on smart ass lawyers.... . hi evil, miss you .

H2O @ about 3 years ago

Spotsylvania, VA 22553, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

Doc,,, They will probably get some use out of it when deer season opens.

jc @ about 3 years ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

C767f03aeb282b9660d8157840047228

Hey H2O...jc, why wait? I'm sure a little population control its in order, otherwise they breed like flies out there. People that is.

Dr. Evil @ about 3 years ago

Lakeland, MN, USA

5f13389fd6ea4b6de49bacec84ed7d8f

Doc,, my post was a reference to a doonesbury character. Uncle Duke was displaying his hunting gear which included an 81mm mortar. He told his friend that he liked to soften up the area before going in.

jc @ about 3 years ago

Yellow Springs, OH 45387, USA

811f304d1edba24fb92ebcd4eeb3d8a8

Arcadia, maybe the #s are down BECAUSE the PDs have been able to upgrade their .38 revolvers. If they revert to Mayberry, I don't think the criminals will too.

Taco Bowl @ about 3 years ago

New York, NY 10038, United States

125e03ff143e887a8bee577895339921

@Doc- just playing devil's advocate here. Maybe the grenade launcher is for flash grenades or tear gas for riot control. That may be a justified use.

Racer X @ about 3 years ago

Winder, GA 30680, USA

125e03ff143e887a8bee577895339921

I doubt the local police are launching frag grenades at citizens.

Racer X @ about 3 years ago

Winder, GA 30680, USA

811f304d1edba24fb92ebcd4eeb3d8a8

The grenade launcher is intended for tear gas deployment.

Taco Bowl @ about 3 years ago

New York, NY 10038, United States

811f304d1edba24fb92ebcd4eeb3d8a8

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2014/08/royalton_police_grenade_launcher_1033.php

Taco Bowl @ about 3 years ago

New York, NY 10038, United States

93d38743227fa530172de383530e8ad5

Tell the baby with its mouth blown off that those has grenades aren't dangerous, especially when tossed into a crib

Ai @ about 3 years ago

Chattanooga, TN 37421, USA

93d38743227fa530172de383530e8ad5

gas

Ai @ about 3 years ago

Chattanooga, TN 37421, USA

B5542118c2d0317fb8dbad550049edb7

PLC, we aren't talking about the switch from 38's to 9 mil's. That happened in the late eighties and early nineties.

et in Arcadia ego @ about 3 years ago

Goodfarm, IL, USA

811f304d1edba24fb92ebcd4eeb3d8a8

A little hyperbole. Even so, 9s don't stand up to what the criminal element has access to. Why handcuff the police?

Taco Bowl @ about 3 years ago

New York, NY 10006, United States

6c48fb73634fa41fe7915a7faf370ee7

Gangstas carry 9's cuz they're not allowed to carry so they carry toys.Thank you police for not bowing down to this racist leader of the free world. I guess we know what a community organizer is now, he makes a püssy statement then golfs

Mr. Pink @ about 3 years ago

Brunswick, OH, USA

6c48fb73634fa41fe7915a7faf370ee7

And this is why I don't own a gun, wait a minute I do own a gun but don't tell anybody https://www.yahoo.com/news/suburban-detroit-man-sentenced-fatal-porch-shooting-110641230.html

Mr. Pink @ about 3 years ago

North Royalton, OH 44133, USA

93d38743227fa530172de383530e8ad5

Yea, I don't brandish it, but I too carry, with license

Ai @ about 3 years ago

East Ridge, TN, USA

93d38743227fa530172de383530e8ad5

and another non licensed, South the serial numbers scraped off

Ai @ about 3 years ago

East Ridge, TN, USA

93d38743227fa530172de383530e8ad5

South=with

Ai @ about 3 years ago

East Ridge, TN, USA

93d38743227fa530172de383530e8ad5

swipe is an idiot

Ai @ about 3 years ago

East Ridge, TN, USA

6c48fb73634fa41fe7915a7faf370ee7

←bïtch slaps Ai south his nutsak

Mr. Pink @ about 3 years ago

Brunswick, OH, USA

A39f5aef0adb6cea421f333e4cc9b583

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5ad_1410150009

[412035] @ about 3 years ago

Martinsburg, WV 25401, United States

93d38743227fa530172de383530e8ad5

Why you always on my nuts pink?

Ai @ about 3 years ago

Chattanooga, TN 37421, USA

98d7101629a5e7bcbaca8c6c5bd9decc

nutsack Pink?

UndrWater @ about 3 years ago

South Redondo, Redondo Beach, CA

A39f5aef0adb6cea421f333e4cc9b583

http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/sheriffs-deputies-sentenced-for-blocking-probe

[412035] @ about 3 years ago

Martinsburg, WV 25401, United States

811f304d1edba24fb92ebcd4eeb3d8a8

Great job! The system works. I wonder if they resisted when they were arrested.

Taco Bowl @ about 3 years ago

New York, NY , United States

441587fe232d918c3a4c8497d22aa156

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/arrests-made-after-rocks-tossed-at-police-in-ferguson-missouri/

President Not Sure @ about 3 years ago

Plantation Palms, Land O' Lakes, FL 34639

811f304d1edba24fb92ebcd4eeb3d8a8

savages

Taco Bowl @ about 3 years ago

New York, NY , United States

6c48fb73634fa41fe7915a7faf370ee7

Great job Ferguson Police don't let them intimidate you

Mr. Pink @ about 3 years ago

North Royalton, OH 44133, USA

A39f5aef0adb6cea421f333e4cc9b583

Actually, the system doesn't work, that's why the probe was initiated in the first place, an the aforementioned culture of brotherhood made every step with every nearly employee to stop it.

[412035] @ about 3 years ago

Martinsburg, WV 25401, United States

A39f5aef0adb6cea421f333e4cc9b583

at no time did any sheriff officer actually put a stop to it, the obstruction simply ran its course. and there is no reason to believe this isn't widespread.

[412035] @ about 3 years ago

Martinsburg, WV 25401, United States

811f304d1edba24fb92ebcd4eeb3d8a8

The system worked. Criminals committed a crime and the were apprehended, charged, tried, convicted and sentenced. There is no reason to believe this is widespread.

Taco Bowl @ about 3 years ago

New York, NY , United States

811f304d1edba24fb92ebcd4eeb3d8a8

*they

Taco Bowl @ about 3 years ago

New York, NY , United States

A39f5aef0adb6cea421f333e4cc9b583

so I was in walmart yesterday and there was a funny thing I noticed, there were generic brand police toys and I remarked to my wife that it was funny that its an armored Humvee and helicopter that shoots a machine gun.

[412035] @ almost 3 years ago

Martinsburg, WV 25401, United States

A39f5aef0adb6cea421f333e4cc9b583

i take it off the shelf for a second and the same toy, painted camo is behind it, for military, they are the same vehicles, painted different colors, that about sums it all up.

[412035] @ almost 3 years ago

Martinsburg, WV 25401, United States

Ff0bc45e0c6ab8165b04eb40e5b1acf7

I wonder how a child's imagination interprets the use of a militarized police vehicle

AMI @ almost 3 years ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

811f304d1edba24fb92ebcd4eeb3d8a8

How did we interpret it as children? I interpreted it as a toy.

Taco Bowl @ almost 3 years ago

New York, NY , United States

A39f5aef0adb6cea421f333e4cc9b583

yeah, they don't really, i don't think anyway. its like one of those adult jokes in a disney movie. its laziness driven by a desire for profit, but it really is telling.

[412035] @ almost 3 years ago

Martinsburg, WV 25401, United States

A39f5aef0adb6cea421f333e4cc9b583

that a police helicopter has a machine gun and yells fire fire fire when you push the button...

[412035] @ almost 3 years ago

Martinsburg, WV 25401, United States

7feb020fb3d3aa6cf2752031cf61da89

you know other than "toys", I've never seen a police Humvee, APC, or helicopter equipped with military grade weapons. I.e. fully automatic 50/60/cal MGs, operator/pilot controlled weapons, etc .

H2O @ almost 3 years ago

Fort Belvoir, VA, USA

811f304d1edba24fb92ebcd4eeb3d8a8

Did you ever watch SWAT as a kid?

Taco Bowl @ almost 3 years ago

New York, NY , United States

Ff0bc45e0c6ab8165b04eb40e5b1acf7

Or CHIPS

AMI @ almost 3 years ago

Villa Park, IL, USA

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