B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

The 1854 version of Obamacare??? Heard of this on sirius this morning for the first time. An 1854 law passed by Congress perfectly analogous to Obama care, Medicare and the like. Vetoed and defeated by President Franklin Pierce with a veto

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Comments (63)

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

message so true to the original intent of the Constitution and our founders it brought a tear to my eye! http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=67850

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

Still perfectly applicable today btw if anyone had half a mind to actually respect the Constitution.

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

6c48fb73634fa41fe7915a7faf370ee7

Not after Obama wiped his ass with it!!

Mr. Pink @ about 4 years ago

Brunswick, OH, USA

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

Skal should read this

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Jersey City, NJ 07304, USA

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

Doc too

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Jersey City, NJ 07304, USA

B63b734d9476a55ed0025f2d37803146

skal and doc don't give two craps for the constitution. we've been over this.

A Benevolent Greedy Bastard @ about 4 years ago

New Castle, IN 47362, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

I do... just not your particular interpretation of certain parts of it

Tjaden Froyda @ about 4 years ago

Rochester, MN 55901, USA

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

I simply believe that it should be followed as understood by the ratifies at the time of ratification. There is so much documentation that there is little question as to what that means. Pierce articulates this perfectly.

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Arlington Heights, PA, USA

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

I was actually quite shocked.

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Arlington Heights, PA, USA

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

When you selectively "interpret" portions then you are being disingenuous and doing a disservice to everyone.

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Arlington Heights, PA, USA

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

It's long but worth the read. I wanted you to read it to understand how flagrantly against the real meaning of Constitution Obama care is.

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Arlington Heights, PA, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

keep pretending that your interpretations aren't also highly selective.

Tjaden Froyda @ about 4 years ago

Rochester, MN 55901, USA

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

And doc simply because her willing acceptance of bogus scotus rulings. This smack down veto took this nonsense off the federal table until FDR came along.

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Arlington Heights, PA, USA

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

Such as...?

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Arlington Heights, PA, USA

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

That's an empty accusation. I am more than willing to accept the parts I do not like.

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Arlington Heights, PA, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

It's not empty, we've simply had the discussion before. Madison vs Hamilton...pick the framer that fits your position, and insist that specific framer's vision is what every single one of them had it mind.

Tjaden Froyda @ about 4 years ago

Rochester, MN 55901, United States

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

Except pre-ratification Hamilton argued the OPPOSITE of his post-ratification positions. See the issue there? Not much to debate. He was a dishonest power hungry snake.

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Arlington Heights, PA, USA

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

Aaron burr did the country a favor. To bad he didn't do it a few decades earlier.

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Arlington Heights, PA, USA

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

(too)

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Arlington Heights, PA, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

And Madison later in life changed his views as well, remember our discussion on the Virginia resolutions?

Tjaden Froyda @ about 4 years ago

Rochester, MN 55901, United States

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

I do. Not relevant here. Did you read the veto message.

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Arlington Heights, PA, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

If you are going to bring up Hamilton having different pre/post ratification positions, Madison wavering from strict constructionism is absolutely relevant if you are going to appeal to his strict constructionism

Tjaden Froyda @ about 4 years ago

Rochester, MN 55901, United States

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Yes, I read it.

Tjaden Froyda @ about 4 years ago

Rochester, MN 55901, United States

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

Madison was in disbelief that the alien and sedition acts passed and were being enforced. The years and effort that were devoted to fighting it outweigh the opinion expressed later as an elderly man when he was more concerned about his legacy. And

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

make no mistake...  He was very concerned about his legacy.  Remember this was a huge failure of his greatest effort and once in the past it was in his interest to downplay it. As for the nullification crisis,  another thing to keep in mind is that

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

is that his rejection of Calhoun's nullification attempt was specific to the issue at hand. Calhoun wanted to nullify a power expressly granted by the Constitution because it didn't fit the reasoning for which the power was included. Quite different

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

than nullifying a power not granted to the federal government. Find for me some ratification period writings that supports the idea that this 1854 act or Obamacare for that matter, were powers INTENDED to be delagated to the federal govt.

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

6c48fb73634fa41fe7915a7faf370ee7

You complete that great speech with the word delagated?

Mr. Pink @ about 4 years ago

Brunswick, OH, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

which specific component of obamacare do you have in mind? you may not realize this, but there are many parts of the law.

Tjaden Froyda @ about 4 years ago

Rochester, MN 55901, USA

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

Really!? Pick anything. Start with mandating health insurance exchanges in each state.

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Closest thing I can think of was the disabled seamen act, which is more about the individuals than states. Am I right to assume you believe the tenth explicitly prohibits such a law?

Tjaden Froyda @ about 4 years ago

Rochester, MN , United States

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

How familiar are you with the text of the law regarding the establishment of the federal exchanges?

Tjaden Froyda @ about 4 years ago

Rochester, MN , United States

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

I ask because you are missing an important nuance to the design of the federal exchanges.

Tjaden Froyda @ about 4 years ago

Rochester, MN 55901, USA

26e82c69bac3abe48cfce8aae262fda8

Skål has disabled semen.

The Drew @ about 4 years ago

Yorkville, New York, NY

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

I hope so... don't need any more kiddos

Tjaden Froyda @ about 4 years ago

Rochester, MN 55901, USA

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

Skal they make pills for that don't they?

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

I believe the Constitution does. That is, with or without the 10th. Remember the BOR explicitly stated what was already implicit. It only existed because Henry and other "anti fedetalists" (correctly) distrusted Madison and Hamilton's arguments.

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

I believe Hamilton, from the beginning, had no intention of following it. He planned on inventing implied powers and planned on exploiting them. That's why you'll hear silverfox say from time to time that it is not his fault the document is poorly

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

written. That doesn't change meaning or understanding at the time of ratification. The states agreed to delegate limited and specifically enumerated powers to the general govt. Period.

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

Previous unconstitutional acts and bogus supreme Court rulings don't change the meaning any more than OJ getting away with murder legalizes homicide.

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Again, I ask how familiar you are with the text of the law regarding the establishment of the federal exchanges? Why? The states are not mandated to set up exchanges.

Tjaden Froyda @ about 4 years ago

undefined

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

This may come as a shock to you, but much of what you've come to believe about the law isn't actually true.

Tjaden Froyda @ about 4 years ago

undefined

6c48fb73634fa41fe7915a7faf370ee7

we just want to know how much.Do we have to pass it to find out??

Mr. Pink @ about 4 years ago

Brookpark, OH 44142, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

Nah...just stop listening to talking heads telling you what is in the bill and read it yourself. You should try it.

Tjaden Froyda @ about 4 years ago

undefined

6c48fb73634fa41fe7915a7faf370ee7

I'm sure it's magical

Mr. Pink @ about 4 years ago

Strongsville, OH, USA

6c48fb73634fa41fe7915a7faf370ee7

by the way WHO WROTE IT?

Mr. Pink @ about 4 years ago

Strongsville, OH 44136, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

It was a group effort. Republicans were invited, but they threw a hissy fit.

Tjaden Froyda @ about 4 years ago

undefined

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

I'm aware, and many states have opted out, and so the federal govt will create and run them. Still unconstitutional under original intent and ratified understanding. Whether the state can opt out of running it is irrelevant. Where in the Constitution

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

are they granted a power allowing them to establish a health care exchange in each state?

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

I understand that wickard vs filburn set the precedent that justifies the federal govt's interference anywhere with anything at any level. Only the selfish and disingenuous believe that bs. You cannot look at the founding and EVER come to the honest

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

conclusion that was either intended or constitutional.

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

I reject relying on precedent as well. If you do that then you must accept the constitutionality of the three federal govt arresting and prosecuting anyone who speaks out against Obama (should such a law be passed). That precedent was set by none

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

other than John Adams

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

The way the law was constructed, the exchanges are federally-based insurance marketplaces. States could opt-in to assume regulatory control for their state. Although the commerce clause argument was rejected with

Tjaden Froyda @ about 4 years ago

undefined

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

the ACA's individual mandate by SCOTUS, it holds here. I also find it comical that those states surrendered control to the feds...but that's a different story.

Tjaden Froyda @ about 4 years ago

undefined

6c48fb73634fa41fe7915a7faf370ee7

plus cancer patients really get SCREWED!!

Mr. Pink @ about 4 years ago

Brunswick, OH, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

yes, obamacare covers prostitution for cancer treatment

Tjaden Froyda @ about 4 years ago

Rochester, MN 55901, USA

6c48fb73634fa41fe7915a7faf370ee7

I also heard that the young people are going to pay for the old people's health care! Also it's very bad for the middle class

Mr. Pink @ about 4 years ago

Brunswick, OH, USA

6c48fb73634fa41fe7915a7faf370ee7

The only thing normal I heard about it was that people with less money will get crappier healthcare than the middle class who will get just plain crappy healthcare

Mr. Pink @ about 4 years ago

Brunswick, OH, USA

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

you should change your sources

Tjaden Froyda @ about 4 years ago

Kutzky Park, Rochester, MN

B67dcffad9da00f6755f4e0483bb5222

Commerce clause is nonsense here. Remember now... original intent. YOU KNOW that if states ever suspected the general govt would be able to regulate intrastate commerce the Constitution would not have been ratified.

Arlington Heights @ about 4 years ago

Exchange Place North, Jersey City, NJ 07302

B35527b232c45def78db4f6949419182

I don't have privy to a time machine.

Tjaden Froyda @ about 4 years ago

Apple Valley, MN, USA

99fed9036b0143e80f5e0bb1512a73df

What a cop out....

"Inexorable" @ about 4 years ago

Sussex, WI 53089, United States

Stats

  • Like
    2
  • Dislike
    0
  • Comment
    63

Location